Episode Twenty Three – Sherrie is shunned by Jehovah’s Witnesses

Welcome to the show and podcast where we expose religions that you shining as a tool to control people today we have a really cool live recording from my living room this episode little different than most listener to the show from Australia name Sherry actually came to the United States on a trip with her auntie Bev and they took time out of their trip to come visit my wife Jenny and I Sherry is a pretty freshly out X Jehovah’s Witness and Beverly was actually never one of the witnesses but she was very close to her family and she always gonna hope that you know maybe one day she can see them leave the cult behind so I had to Mike’s and we pass them around the living room and you hear Sherry and Beverly and myself and I’m a wife Jenny jumps into so stick around after the interview you’re going to hear how the podcast is doing what next month’s episode will be about and I’m also going to give you some highlights from the sun podcast Facebook group and what’s going on in their in fact I have a surprise audio from somebody in the group that I’m to share with you that I think you want to stick around and here it’s one of the coolest first Christmas stories that I’ve ever heard but some actually going to go ahead and announce something that you the listener can purchase a patent on the show in the future so be sure to listen all the way through it you might miss something that you might actually want to be a part of so this whole episode from start to finish has some unique aspects and I hope you really enjoy it so without further ado let’s meet Sherry and auntie Bev my name is Sherry I’m 43 years of age and I’m stunned all right and you were one of Jehovah’s Witnesses write correct all right and so how did you become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the first place how were you reborn in their morning so not much choice and okay so am and I know that’s the case with many what’s was the history there and what how many generations back does ago say on my father’s side he was taken generations that made me sit and my mouth I she’s the only one in his sinuses family he was a witness size second-generation on his site okay if you don’t mind me asking do you have any inkling as to what it was always fascinated by why people join so do you have any idea what it was maybe that attracted your mom to it yesterday and mom had a fairly traumatic childhood she would stay youngest to full and his father still quite ill when she was a little go on had brought on one of his older brothers seems to statistically close to was quite well mentally and he committed suicide at a young age and that deeply impacted on mom and pop from a myriad of other things that happened in his childhood say she was priest God from that and and quite vulnerable as a result you say very show to to say it when she spent 19 a belief when she was working day was someone who was studying Jehovah’s Witnesses and it was just waiting there with you bombshell recently has with Hanalei was recently out and this is what colleague of Hayes was studying that book and I think they were commenting on things that are happening in the world time the Cuban missile crisis send in a typical all the wills and mom was making the same comments Wendy’s what colleague it was studying told him about what she was learning with Jehovah’s Witnesses mom’s curiosity was piqued and she was given in trace book she rated him one night and from that was convinced that she had found answers one of the biggest things that impacted on had was the resurrection-the opportunity of seeing his brother again and that that remained for many many years today it is huge motivation for head on to be a witness and it’ll say seated his personality she’s quiet and it she’s a determined when she’s made a decision on something and she’s very definite say she can tend to tip a black or white should be quite decisive bunches made in a decision and that very much feasted very well into their ideology of and the culture of the religion I think that happens with a lot of people because if you think about it and how he sums that we hear stories of somebody I think my mom was similar and that she got a book and she read it one night and stayed up all night reading this book and just boom like she was sold that all she needed and I think you know when you have people were victims of trauma and products of that environments they’re looking for something some sort of certainty something that that they can look forward to to fix that problem and you know your mom had the hope of a resurrection right there you know boom in black and white and the known to the Scriptures they use in the narrative that they form is something that most people never heard so it was of these to talk about tickling the ears of people that exactly what they do they sell them what they want and then boom there sold and the ready to go so now we have a special guest on the podcast today we have anti-valve and I know that you got to see this change happened from afar so how did it feel so you you see her mom going down this path what did you think of it as you are watching it well I was very concerned is my baby sister is a Jehovah’s Witness I didn’t even know about witnesses it will have and she’s going to get married in the kingdom whole I want to know if it is legally married in the kingdom was a nice day she got married in a chair she married in a path goal the ladies always got the church and down she said yes was less than I can I find we went to the waiting that’s in I was also concerned because this – 25th could give a gift and has shifted to compile and cut me off I didn’t say them for a long time and then after. Of time I should have the children and I detected come down to see me at an angle point which was lovely but I still didn’t think of Jehovah’s Witnesses I didn’t realize that I didn’t really support Christmas at 20 not that because I hadn’t seen them that I came down and had to be Christmas time the Christmas tree Sherry said to me as a little go and if you’re not you got a Christmas tree so I set and Sherry and Donna down his sister and just how it is I have a different religion to here and she’s got isn’t this not a problem I’m not a bad lighting in just little things that that I didn’t really get to live too much and then father Christmas was coming along in the war, the bank subtle by skill sets and look father Christmas is coming not even thinking of getting wrong thing and the next thing Lana came out 10 past age available to me inside and then I realize it made a big mistake with children and the knock on the top of my husband because I did voting tells and I sat was catch 22 anyways I should’ve when I am and I still didn’t set them for a while after that that damn I then did get it to the kingdom whole was all and data was studying like it I would sit there and I went down singing hymns and I guess visible – it could not stay bullshit on and how anybody could actually believe in the shape dictated the truth I could not stand but so squashed so much love control I just couldn’t understand I am and then I went with Sherry to the kingdom home and I went to different meetings a lot but a few but I never caused any problems I went because I was going the same and what church I was at that manner where it is and and that then I went with Donna went to his as well one thing that really on before I get to that I would essays I was in Mexico and inputs and beautiful Black Onyx ornaments and again until Allah she came straight back I see what’s wrong gods I didn’t even matter what God’s tonight with just a little black ornament sarcastic at the time that upset me bit and then another time I bought tickets for together and say Jesus Christ SEPA stuck in your blood and he would like that that she didn’t get to see that this got the ticket or somebody I did was wrong but that all speaks to the fact that when these changes happen it impacts the family who is not only becoming Jehovah’s Witnesses and I have to ask you said that about how black-and-white it was that it seems like it was of a very sudden change that wasn’t what were you warned at any point or was it as simple as you you the birthday happens and boom that is exactly what happened I was born I didn’t have any ideas on that she was a Jehovah’s Witness she’s getting married and you didn’t do anything he could info etc. is such a fast change it’s like I’m sometimes you’ll see in the world at large a woman will get involved in them with a man and all the sudden was the first thing she does starts cutting off her family and things are changing as a system a sign of domestic violence and you know it it’s abuse and know in the situation as well here you go right away boom cut off the family is black-and-white it so fast and so harsh and it’s it’s sad that so many outside people get affected by that person’s decision so Sherry what was so we’ve heard from your and what was it like for you growing up in its what was the worldview that you had from growing up as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses what it means you thinking long and had a question to try and say distinctly it’s not an easy thing to try to describe concisely sure and I and naturally an optimistic person to it that like to speak to negatively on so even when I look back at my childhood I recognize the problems we did I recognize that the tremoring the damage I’m not that mom and dad to the base they could with the circumstances they had but overall I would have to say that he was was very straight very rule driven and now I recognize as an adult that they wasn’t’s freedom of expression for child you would not free to express to you where you weren’t even able to explore road to find you way that was to find for you you had to pay what you were told today children are told to be obedient to the parents and that everything mom and dad says is easy and to me I was a very serious minded child and not being taught I was the oldest side I had to set the example for my youngest sister and I felt that very keenly I tried when I was at school wherever I was not I a I felt that my role was already defined what I was supposed to pay and I’m the question was how well was I going to fulfill that role I didn’t even think that it was any tendency to that so if you were told at the meetings not to sing the national anthem you not to salute the flag will Justina? You just title line indeed that and if you mom and dad say you need to do something you just do it side now I look back and I realize that probably wasn’t really healthy but I don’t blame him and dad for that because I recognize that was to be for example many was raised as a witness as well and in a pretty harsh environment to mom was site keen to place anxious to place that I could say she fit into that very easily in St. wasn’t without some struggle side the tills might think that will buy young they were traumatized from they use as well trying to do the best they could not knowing not realizing that the central Mr. the pain inflicted on the link that’s case without being inflicted on the children to so how did you feel in that situation you just described very well you what you had to do as a kid did you feel that you were stifled in any way or did worry you kind of as I know for myself there were times where I thought really stifled and in the were also times where I think to get around the feelings of being stifled I kind of almost became arrogance where I was like well him just doesn’t feel right but I’ve got the truth you know and and so how did how did it impact you how did you feel as a kid going through it pressured pressure that’s a good word really really prescient day level of conformity that he had had not just conformity but that you need to be exemplary you need to show everyone the way of how you’re being loyal to Jehoiada and what you doing city was just enormous amount of pressure and I know the rest of the family felt that to is a small example after each district convention that they were not to much these days can the day new releases and with the new releases I particularly meant that from the ages of 910 11 mom would help me work out a little demonstration were a little presentation rather that I could take to the teachers at school so that I could place the book and I remember feeling the pressure of doing that mom put a lot of effort into helping me work out what to say and then I remember the days going to school afterwards since going to delete I have to do this. Have to place a book with his teacher and there was no the witnessing school was just me and was really that’s not that’s not what a nine-year-old feels like doing is in in essence even at that age I felt uncomfortable with taking a religious piece of material to a teacher in place in Iraq teaches which is being really kind to me all day so my nervousness and they just took the book and yes I went Heimlich cited I placed the book and then I could write it on my report card and handed it but that if you ask for a feeling that haps is my childhood I would pressure I think is probably the best way to come up with the other that’s a very good term that the we all felt a lot of pressure so you felt so much pressure as a kid how did that out of that manifest us a home what was life like at home as as a child growing up as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses what that feel like you was there a lot of joy did you get to go out and do a lot of fun things or was it more you quote theocratic activities or it was based on the activities cited the average wage ways meeting attendance field service your assemblies and conventions everything kind of revolved around that there were other issues in the family as well that made made life challenging and I space my disclaimer here is that I want to be able to speak openly about my childhood sure that I had no desire to ascend to upset guys that have been closest to me so I a and I’m grateful for what mom and dad did to raise the kids I know I take it the best they could sure and this is not about blame night we all we all have our own truth and it’s based on our experience doesn’t make it untrue just because somebody else might see in a different way my eye I space you like to struggle with not wanting to misrepresent them that sure at the same time not wanting to misrepresent myself sure say little life wasn’t easy and there was a lot of friction and it was a lot of arguing within the family and as an adult now I can look back and I can say what they contributing factors to with an eye I understand more clearly that at the child’s I felt fear and hide day was the in the threats of violence at it wasn’t necessarily violent they were occasions where was but it was just rated it so I amended feelings see full claim of what could happen next and and I just pressure weight because I recognize that I was you wanting precious child my parents had the feeling cell because they being pushed to conform to this ideology and the culture of being witnessed and united trying to provide for family dealing with health issues and family issues and say it wasn’t actually at all and I I remember some occasions way as a family we enjoyed one another’s company I I have to be honest and admit that they were few and far between buying large it was it was a difficult’s environment and I’ve recognized now as an adult that going to school was an escape because coming hi I felt anxious all their you see you saying that bring that up for me I remember I hated to go home from school I might take the long way home were to something just to not have to go home because it was there was so much stress there and the I know my wife is sitting here shaking her head the same thing she was out of a sow oneself everyone’s heard that story but now does that that stress is definitely there and you bring up a good point as hard as it was on us and we are the ones telling our stories and in and that needs to be validated in our families were under a lot of pressure and it’s very hard to try to hold all that together I really can’t I mean I know myself it was just the two of us trying to be loyal faithful witnesses and make a living we have any kids I can imagine what it’s like to try to do that with kids and and all the pressures that puts on you and I think people break in certain ways and violence might be one of those ways you know that the people, break and I agree that again with the hindsight adults would I recognize that with my my mom and dad they got married quite young when they still had unresolved issues that had not spent any time working on themselves sure seat to work out who they way and what made him teach and why it was that certain situations made them felt upset and anxious so when you’re young like that and you haven’t sorted those issues out and then you add children into it in a cult you gotta have fixed the home you’re never gonna have time to sort that night that’s right and only then this added pressure cooker situation it’s it’s just going to close also to problems say yeah there were there were significant issues within the family as a result that it wasn’t looking back now I I realized it wasn’t happy childhood as much as I’m an optimist and attractive look. Writes it wasn’t happy childhood sure but now you did say that school was an escape for you so how was it being a young witnesses school for you well some meisters my school life I was the sole witness certainly from kindergarten you money to that receipt from three to seek switch in a straight is your primary school well the East Coast and West Coast as this a different system again I was still the only witness and in use Ray yesterday I remember vividly I was nine and that ye had a really big impression on me again on that’s GDS very conscientious student wanting to do well having that reinforced at meetings that you unite gotta give you best and you told the manual serves to drive you going to the best said again that pressure always striving to perform is different and the kids didn’t know what to do with me a didn’t celebrate birthdays have to be excluded from that I wasn’t part of religious education Scripture class now I was taken to the library for that and everybody else was Christian site I pretty much the only one taken away from that Christmas of course and I went to my most vivid memories of that year was two things actually one was being given in an assignment to do on what we wanted to do when we grew up and united the boys in school of policemen and firemen and some of the bills may be nested well nine-year-old Sherry took this question very seriously and fillable what do I want to do when I grow up and around the same time it is simply I’m not circuit assembly while I’ve got this question mulling around my head to the pioneers we interviewed regular piney and I’m listening today interview and one of them says that the greatest joy she’s ever experienced is bringing other people into the truth and Mason nine Euros and that and I think that some of my school friends and I think could making witnesses to see what you think my school assignment was on what I wanted to do when I grew up I decided that I would do my assignment stats I wanted to be a regular piney when I grew up hashtag best life ever has to take you and I I got this pale blue what and I took the is the enjoy life stress and pressure that was to dismiss his 1983 while I already said my age psyche Dennis where that doing the math and I cut the pressure up the peaches step on the board explain what God’s kingdom was and then as part of this assignment you had to present it to the class you had to stand up in front of the plastic you cardboard and explain to the class and I get that the Jakarta time and if I want to do that I probably should I didn’t have my time but I got a merit award for a while and that that got told some house to at the circuit I had a second I see call me to do an experience which was very nervous about that I did this experience on these projects that I didn’t so that’s that’s Mason nine-year-olds I’ve been given recognition and everybody commends me this wonderful goal of being a regular piney so now my life course to set out the full me because that’s it I get this award and then at the end of the ye backing E3 they were seeks the ones that would be giving out for the whole year based on how you perform during ye and straighten culture we have a total puppy issue issue and a strategy you can’t speak too highly of yourself and that’s that’s a very Australian thing as well as a witnessing to on my name got called out for one of these merit awards I was one of the seats and I smiled I was happy I was dumb well the kids in the class were not so impressed so I got bullied from then on because I was doing well in school and I was different and I remember for the remainder of that year being ostracized from all the kids in school and walking around State quadrangle there and I had not a friend I sat having lunch by myself except what I did was I self talk that I had all of the angels on my site and I would sit day having my lunch with my friends and think and I pray to Jehovah and think Hale might not have any physical frenzy that I have all these Angels he pay you are my friends that’s how I got through heat three while you know it’s it’s amazing if you think about it though what there’d unwittingly what the doctrine does and what was done to you there is you just isolated yourself further so so the amount talk about the keen wall because then you’re going to the Gina was a kid and that’s where your true friends are supposed to be so they’ve they’ve made you do things the kind of pushes away all the other kids that that so that then when you go to the king of all those to be more desperate to have those people be your friend right so what was life like growing up at the quinoa for you know going out the ministry how did you come to fit in giving talks and doing all the things that are a young witness does as a kid say again as in nine-year-olds I started in this credit history school at that age as well start getting my fist talks think if my memory serves me really was the my book Bible stories that are going through that I remember doing some talks from Bible stories the gratitude that is it went any kids my age say I just I made friends wherever I could but didn’t really have close friends and because of that the dynamic family had we went necessarily always invited out with other families sometimes we were and and I always enjoyed that but it was small and often not the case so I that wasn’t what we just unite you went to meetings begin pressure that went comes back because it was expected that we answered up in the watchtower at least once side arm in Bay in their Sunday meetings China I need to get paragraph 21 yeah the pressure to get her into the unit and and you’d feel the eyes dads eyes looking at you you haven’t answered yet site yet that that was kind of meaning still say this well that’s in the days where there was a morning tea breaks a field since you outfield service for at least three hours solid sometimes longer and it was a foot slope and not not easy but I didn’t know any defy I didn’t know what else to compare it to that was that was the retain that was so normal life yeah it’s it’s hard to know what else you we don’t have any exposure to anything else which I believe is the definition of undue influence so all right so now how did things progress as you went into your teen years I don’t know exactly when you got baptized how to do that kind of progress for you before I get to the teen years and one thing that I would like to mention when I got you seeks my youngest sister came into school she was dating E3 when I was in the seeks and that was a really interesting dynamic and I hate realize now that the cult had a lot to do with why my sister and I didn’t get on because I was so busy trying to be the model child trying to do everything correctly my sister was trying to find heroine freedom of expression and I think she knew she didn’t want to be me she wanted to pay itself and as I saw it coming to use Ray she was doing things that I would never have dreamed of black she was active it was hilarious actually she got involved in their the concert at end of year what is that coatings training to get what they need to interview performance and keeps get up and dance and do whatever they want to suck little like recycled yeah let something like that will have the courage to get up and dance and do-it-yourself and she she did to video killed the radio star and I remember sitting there in the audience just that my sister had enough courage to do that but not only that she she bent the rules a bit she had a boyfriend when she was in high is not… That just means holding hands maybe and nothing else just Disraeli having friend is boy more than anything that I have dreamed of doing or anything like that site there was conflict between the two of us because I was doing everything that he was supposed today Don was pushing rules and I think kind of important storyline to sort of mention that because Herr and I had a lot of conflict between us as children I realize now a lot of it was because of that pressure to conform I was conforming she wasn’t that close conflict say anyway you seeks I need into high school then and that’s where things that interesting because that’s was 13 Dania seven and at that point in time the pressure began to get too much from him dad and they started to miss a lot of meetings send meeting attendance dropped off of the family completely on so much so that I remember one night we went to go to the meeting that was the second of seized is it in the not to being changed around and pretend that there was no one they are not thrown completely shown over the green revival actually exactly. Tightly messed up that that’s where we were at that point of time say we would be what you Tim spiritually wake at that time a field since was happening I remember XM and going to a meeting at that age and stairs said since he came up to me to tell me that I was now an irregular publisher because I hadn’t putting report and was horrified I didn’t really understand what he was telling me I didn’t recognize what it meant all and you was I was having to tell me something that wasn’t good sorry that’s where at that point at the same time at school there was an interfaith Christian fellowship group and again I’m still the only witness and it was my music teacher that Randy’s interfaith great and she started to show interesting me and asked me questions about my beliefs and I started to answer those questions she started to gain invite me to come along today meetings with one of the better way the gatherings that I would have lunch time without the kids my age and at first I resisted because hundred and nine Apple on great done anything to do it but after a while they seems like good people and they were reading the Bible and I thought what’s the humming going so I went that this wasn’t just any interfaith fellowship group actually speaking in tongues for a while say and it was it was an interesting experience in a sustaining euro because I was watching them I felt nestled time because I think I was thinking I should be but I recognized on you more about the Bible they did I had more knowledge with scriptures where they’d remember some equipment where was I went straight to it it was a very interesting experience ran the same time thy mom and dad decide we can move from Sydney and moved test to the outside country and my first thought I’m now not long before 14 on the missile lease friends right by me Bible as a going away gift I had no Mike’s eyes just got really quiet that that’s an easy way to get out of Sinai on looking at the Bible thinking can if I take the I cannot take Bible but it was white (gold adds to had pictures unit and I think with the new internationalization and I recognize that was a costly thing for them to get together and I thought this is a really nice gesture but I can possibly take place this this is can the close so anyway face I it’s kind of explained it to dictates that she can when you get there and you feel it take a brought me leader was to move the letter never got St. sure but anyway I neither side is just another example of how the Jehovah’s Witnesses you expect everyone else to bend to them and and even something nice like that yeah the lovely gesture you can’t just take a nice gift from somebody it’s a Bible of all things but not the New World translation and you will translation say you can’t go anywhere in your pajamas one of the door have their own Bible not that’s right say we moved to Paris and that was a huge transition that was just monstrous in many ways but I’m I mention the story of the interfaith great because to Mason impressionable young teenager that that made it very big impact on me because I felt like I had now tested the religion again something else it wasn’t like I been raised in religion and you know different I took that experience of six months getting to know the people in another faith as knowledge and experience for me to be able to pay the truth Jehovah’s Witness doctor again something else so when we went to Dick convention at the end of 1988 and I think if my memory since it was an international and it was the divine justice convention something happened during that convention that just really really impacted me and that was and they do it every international I now realize is you have candidates from other countries, and this particular convention a big deal was made about this international candidates it was a Saturday and Sunday I want to say this Sunday but it doesn’t really matter that invited the candidates to walk in front of the stadium and waved at the stadium and United residents get the emotions whipped up well my emotions were whipped up and I just thought now no other religion Dusty’s no other religion has is to grave unity we’ll talk the same thing doesn’t matter what race we this is nothing like that interfaith Christian fellowship group on bed squirming next to me on my for that it was at that point that I as a young impressionable teenager when this must be the truth sure and a few months later I made the decision that I wanted to get baptized and but I didn’t tell mom and dad that I went confided in a cistern coronation state when mom get found that there were none too happy that I hadn’t spoken to them-fest and I really know why I did that I just did they just say anyway the end of 1989 November 11 remembrance day I was baptized not just shy of turning 15 is a pretty big deal so were you the type that got baptized and instantly jumped into your sister so there’s not much I like and if I read that you are you the type who jumped into auxiliary pioneering or something like that you know maybe when you’re in school or in school holidays yesterday and was determined to leave school eating which I’d eat and I went straight into exhilarating pioneering for six months and I started regular pioneering in 1991 so how were you then 16 660 so then how things play out because you’re approaching young adulthood I don’t know how it is in Australia but here in America in 18 are seen as an adult and the that’s kind of what a big time in one’s life where things are changing usually graduated high school and now you can you have options go to college or not your witness but you can do whatever you you know that that’s where people start to individuate from their families and maybe you know move out on their own or you often these adventures as “adults I don’t know-fest the same in Australia but how did that kind of play out as you got toward that age well when I got baptized that made it very clear that as far as they can send from a spiritual point of view of the metal thing because whatever I did from that point on I stood in front of for say it was that no pressure exactly pressure say but causing a still child living in the time when I started pioneering after he left school I was looking for work and take that actually started working at McDonald’s that was my first job before I finish school I was doing that contribute pain board and try to contribute to my expenses in the household after I’d left school and had a bit more time of the site what it more McDonald’s and was of say field service a lot more started saving towards getting, because my goal was at the end of that first year I would be going to Piney school and I would need to drive in order to get Piney school sorry I had to have a car and had to have my license sorry that took my ficus really during that first G and I have to say I was enjoying it like I did enjoy it you got a true believer I really believed I was doing the right thing we were in a corrugation that had I was the 12th Piney it was nothing yet is a lot of activity it was there was a lot going on of the youngest Piney and I was made of lulls because it’s that I had all of these experienced pie knees that I could spend time with once he then went on sick wear afterwards missionary service like it was a happening corrugation so I look back at that time happy actually and content with how I spent my time and the ones that I got to spend my time with that you have a lot of friends will be safe the peer peer friends are gay I had a few had a few but there was more to come so I had a few that that I was close to on an ice testing on it at that age when you get your license starting to get a little bit of independence send I was enjoying time with my life that started to enjoy it a lot more when I got to 19 and made the decision to leave time and that happened because when I turned 19 useless goal but I wanted to go to Bethel as a single system living in Paris got a chance but I still wanted to go to Bethel so the money not 1019 and that assembly actually convention I went running up to the district and see by the way is now left the organization and is an atheist how often saying that often anyhow I went running up to him and told him 19 now I can apply and he said very nice T-shirt but what are you going to do in between now and Bethel because I’ve been pioneering three now and I just glibly went to what other options on the first single sister also needs greater and I said it rather glibly that he took it seriously went despite my father and told him and said off just had to concession Sherry she said she wants to save with an 80s is a need in these coronation Scott and is not pie knees she should talk about a book that took that seriously could district I’ve seen it going to talk to him sure I get from that assembly to find a stainless conversation and and that’s actually behind it he thinks it’s a great ID and mom was a bit cautious of it but she got behind it as well and all of a sudden let Michael watch as you now I can leave in high well to you just curious to know you’ve talked a lot about what you’ve been doing at this time where your parents you said that your parents had stopped going to meetings pretty much altogether with how was there meeting attendance during this period of time thanks for bringing that up because I missed that part of the story the minutes from Sydney to Paris was because they recognized the spiritual condition was poor and they felt that the lifestyle in Sydney because of the higher cost of living they would not make it possible for them to make ends meet financially and have all of the commitments in the religion site I felt best thing to do was simplify cell what heading Sydney (that way that up simplify in fact because of the properties they sold him in Sydney to buy out right in Paris and not have a mortgage and I get the sense that that so when we moved to Paris and we did that mom didn’t have to do it full-time dad didn’t even have to it full-time dad she started regular pioneering side he regular Piney for three years my first year of regular pioneering eyes locked the keys last year pioneering he would of pain 4C at the time and in his last year pioneering he was appointed an elder and was also diagnosed with diabetes type II when he was diagnosed with diabetes he felt the demands of being an elder regular pioneering working times too much so he dropped regular pioneering and focused on work and his role as an elder in the end he was noted for just 20s site a that worked out it didn’t got back to what it was in Sydney side probably the best way that I can describe that and I’m not sure it’s it’s it’s a interesting hypothetical to play out what would’ve happened if we didn’t make if we’d stayed in Sydney I have no idea where we would be if you hadn’t made that move so then they made the move and then so did you ultimately end up going to where the knee was greater as it may discover that so let me ask so asked Beverly so you’re not just a passive bystander and also you you you actually go to meetings with them at times and things like that what is you think when you saw Sherry you know what that critical point of time she’s not going to college and she’s about to come and go deeper in an and go do this the did you have any thoughts on that or were you around enough to see that line use it she was really interested in going to be and I need it she was a pioneer in the very ranges the mouth of the one to getting and I I actually went the weekend Sherry that’s another thing I type yet and that a lot of the past five to Sherry and is I am glad I’m glad to actually raise that because before I left time I was 18 said raping regular Piney cheese bites I mom and dad made it possible for me to travel back to the East Coast for holiday for three weeks we spent the first time that I was going on a holiday without mom and dad on my and I was going to be in Sydney and Brisbane we had dad has two sisters and one of his sisters is in Brisbane with my two cousins so I would get to stay with him for a bit and the proviso for me to stay in Sydney that he personally had to do with the babe was that she would have to take me to Bethel and he finally lifted that it was all right for me to stay with worldly relative sire and that ended up paying was the first time that I had seen any babes since we moved to Paris from 13 says a long time since I’ve seen hay and a lot has happened to me as an individual between 13 and 18 course sure so now I was going either day I was so excited to Bethel I was thrilled that I was happy to take me and we caught up with a complement to Carolyn and Llewellyn and Nana came yet that’s right host of the phytase and then it came as well but it was on the car ride back time afterwards was that 2 Hour Dr. back from Bethel down to way I chassis and because we just been to Bethel we had a great conversation and any babes shared with me has side of the story of what happened when mom became witness little bit of what she’s already said earlier now and I realized and recognize that the right thing had been done by any she had had things explained to head promptly and I the same time realized that in the early 1970s the religion itself was more fire and brimstone it was more black-and-white and it wasn’t really consider it anybody outside not that it’s really consider it now but is a little bit more attention given to trying to reason or explain things a bit more there are always lots you to cover up a really know how to look on and I remember that trip back being very impressionable of me for saying that I need to write a K she’s not a witness that she still deserves being treated with respect to and having it explained hair why we don’t celebrate Christmas Christmas super basil Mother’s Day or what else what it readies and not just a flat not and that that made a big impression on the associates from a different point of view is probably the first time that I had seen things from a different point of view you are seeing it anywhere as a person with their own feelings and questions about this instead of just out of just cutting somebody off just the whole yes and no thing that is so harsh and if you just explain yourself to a person even if they disagree they feel like they’ve been seen and heard to and everybody wants that nobody wants to just be cut out close to the site today was at the more you acknowledge the more you realize that it will be person is a good person yes you start had another conflict happening with the which is how can they be destroyed and Armageddon how can these people who are good halo and not causing any harm who are being respectful by taking me to Bethel and doing something completely nice you have to do that but she very willingly took me to Bethel site that’s being respectful showing dignity how can that be worthy of destruction site already and that those thoughts were happening course so pushed away at that time but it was a really interesting trip when I went-that was in 93 so where do you go from there so I guess I am glad that I just want to say something when they to Bethel yeah showed us around the place very interesting and now I’m squatting to see what they did and then we had lunch it was really nice because I had the guys had watch its neckties and safety regarding the meal was machinima Mrs. utopian society terrifically completely except had to get up and dentist prior overtime Leggat initiates a scene everybody have their limits so that ensure you go for a so then this was before you left to serve where the need is greater so now how does seems like a pretty tall order to ask a 19-year-old girl to go to another variation away from home pretty much really are first time out on her own and you’re supposed to you know be the only pioneer in this example and everything again pressure so what was that like for you going on that I was in an adventure or was it just filled with pressure of the boat that was incredibly it was I mean it wasn’t any possible for me to do a completely online weight had been sent out that this particular corrugation had one Piney and she was leaving set that would have nothing so it wasn’t just me fortunately they were not tied to pieties that had also been approached in fact the weighted gone out so that when when I moved into the corrugation eight ended up coming and one was announced every week for eight weeks while say it was exciting it was really really exciting site before I moved I got to meet is going to move in with three others two of which were Piney’s and we had a little meeting to get it aware Canada K we would relieve how would we make things work and say I think we handled it pretty well we we H decided would cook one night of the week for the whole four of us my night was the Thursday night and Friday Saturday Sunday night was a thin phase self or will going at socially said doesn’t really matter we assigned cleaning duties and tasks we had it all pretty organized we had a little jar full findings to define bill Chris that was before my ball finds everybody it did was actually a time before there was anyone fucking in the unit and we had a little Johnny said if we use the finally put coins into the wind bill came could handle it when the electricity or gas bill came in which divided it by four so you all live together really like a little hobby was the apartment in a three-bedroom unit really sire I seeing all were nine night and I had nothing was not taking little was in a block of eight units, and we were in one unit and yet had three bedrooms I shared the master bedroom with another bill, she was 17 and while I gotta say we had fun there we had fun it was a hot slope because you had new pie knees and none of us had any we can have very little ministries and no return visits we had nice studies we had nothing we need to build up from scratch site and I was first few weeks and months will join eight hours a day door-to-door it was a foot slug and a half it was tiring but that we had each other site citing getting to know each other for the first time there was a real buzz day a hole where it had any just been built the quick build and I think we do anything in creation six weeks but had its dedication and its dedication talk was done by the same district I see he had told me and for needing to that corrugation anyhow I look back at that time as joyous night and it was exciting as was my first time Anaheim and all of a sudden I had to make my decisions I didn’t have mom and dad to tell me anymore what was right and what was wrong and some of those decisions were challenged by what the others were deciding especially in the areas of entertainment and music mom and dad had been very strict tonight I don’t think strictest itself Jenny we did have a TV but I know but there were things that would definitely like dirty dancing and did not what’s that delivered things that and I was shocked to learn that my new Piney buddies not only had what state dancing but they enjoyed it and I was singing songs and I found this very confronting because I think they it was challenging your course it was you your seeing your people that you respect who are also pioneers who were chosen for this role and they have different standards that are held up as high as yours and as a pioneer you’re supposed to be the person setting the standards for the congregation so you were to be more upright and blameless than anybody you so minute sounds I can only imagine how hard it was because you didn’t have the return visits in the Bible studies that the scum of the easy time you are doing hard time knocking on doors eight hours a day trying to build that up just so that you could have some easy wins in their so now you’re late 19 right so how does that what’s the next milestone after that out is that progress as I go for you I in the corrugation for about three and half keys and thoroughly enjoyed my time but had had a lot of life’s lessons during that time and won one of the big things for me was I had noticed you have any corrugation to a group of friends to TEL clicky with her and I recognized in that time that I want to be the one left behind i.e. needed to be needed to be independent and I needed to be resilient and I had to protect myself side after a while I thought I think it would be healthy to move on you need to stop feeling of the territories and I decided to move back to New South Wales as a result so any bad vintage into the picture again he because I couldn’t move back to Sydney I didn’t know anyone in Sydney and Sydney seemed like a big bad CD to me that was very expensive so I looked again at what the needs list was and lo and behold the corrugation that covers the territories on the beds area was on the needs list and had to Piney’s in it large territory and I thought we could do sire I gave honey bitter cold and asked to see if it would be okay if I could board with her and I think maybe I should pass on the mic see you can tell that story received a call from Sherry design honey I’m coming at you New South Wales and a wonderful downwind began to live will point out okay coming in shortly okay so I spiked him has been Raymond and he said that’s all right she can stay down there with her grandmother the submittal flow we Kate said guests friends and shaken stadium right I kinda was terrific sire where she can manner I do not and I went to pick up at the April to Remember now I I remember happy because we had my car we packed that up with a lot of my possessions and put a train because I wasn’t in a drive train has to kilometers to get to Sydney on my own never say put that on a train and then I flew Isaiah on the midnight horror the slaves at midnight in Paris and it arrives 630 in the morning Sydney it’s a horrible flight but anyway I needed was to meet me at the airport yet with Nana and we then had to drive to Villa Wood to pick up my car and then isolate on if I’m in my car and Nana was she was passenger in my car to keep me away plane flying the whole night and I was tired and I didn’t sleep at Oak is also excited so here we drive down the three hours from Sydney down to Greenpoint to get Tammy and I really was always pushing myself completely out of my Constantine I I didn’t know what was going to be like in a country corrugation I didn’t have work I had since but this time I was working in the banking industry and I sent letters to all of the different banks in the area all of them had come back one by one thanks but no thanks to position sire and that made me feel any secrets I didn’t have any employment I wasn’t sure how the corrugation would receive because I knew no one at all sire I was really just pushing myself and testing what I was capable of yeah yeah you got me and honestly you don’t buy that aid you’ve Artie made a couple pretty big trips so you’re staying with Eddie about your in this new corrugation how did you assimilate into that did you did you fit in pretty well well as I said the country corrugation’s at least my city ways pretty quick on and I didn’t realize how CT fight I was sire I learned I needed to just dress differently I need to approach people differently I needed to relax a lot and just chill speak more slowly and not rush to get to my point and that applied just as much in the corrugation as it did to the ministry as well so I found a really interesting transition just trying to get to know people for who they were and I did really enjoy my time and now I had a great time it was also a real challenge because they weren’t as many Piney’s and stared Piney is that where around our schedules conflicted so far as to going to meet my 90 hour requirement others can have to do some alone time and that also challenged me and push me I did that that was very hard and I need to know not easy but I I worked out ways to to manage it and I enjoyed it IM I had a really good time work was hard for the first four months I was unemployed and when I first arrived to the corrugation the elders told me straightaway you need to go against interlink and get unemployment benefits and I found that hugely confronting because I didn’t want to do that on will always the one that wants to work for my money but they will write I didn’t know I was 24 months before I got wet side I went did that I was very proactive that trying to find work I made up flyers trying to sell what was that whatever I could do which was very much but was willing to do whatever then someone we been there little Township that I was leaving managed at Caravan Park and she offered me what cleaning caravan sauce yes salt do it thank you so much she was fantastic to me she was so good to me because very quickly she was then getting the opportunities to learn how the park ran and she offered me a full-time position to teach me how to manage the park I was only 22 and I realized this was a really big opportunity but attended down because on the Piney and that wasn’t spout of my life playing sure you are not alone there so right so you’re 22 and up to this point having anyone listening can see that you are quite sincere about what you are doing you were by all intents and purposes the model witness and now you’re sitting on a couch had we get you so so how does how does one go from this person who’s kind of driven by the pressure who’s performing who’s doing what seems like all the right things even has standards higher than the other pioneers how do you go from that person you are so many Jehovah’s Witnesses out there right now who are that person and you know I whack I was that person I was very sincere and I did the same thing so how does it all change for you what are the progressions that that go through your adulthood that that take you to where you are today said this point have to bring my husband yeah we got as far should I got had such an end that that story goes back little we first met Lynn when I was 19 and sat before and needs to scupper just in the months before hand actually and so I let it we thought anything of each other fist I do think that Sasha was one same price that I was leaving Hyman going on this whole new adventure and he knew some of the other Piney’s that identity just now met silicon in the same social circle and am towards this is not a 93 getting towards the latter end of 9993 psi 94 getting towards the end of 94 Sasha had he was also regular pioneering and he applied to do construction Bethel’s a suspect to Sydney well Bethel sent back saying no not to construction but he’s an application for the family and I knew as soon as he got that they wanted team in Bethel said he filled in the form and sure enough he gets accepted for a year not the three months construction that he was originally wanting but for at least a year and it was just the next few weeks before he was leaving that he approached me and told me he was interested in me from a different point of view now and I turned down because I thought you copy going to basil and be focusing on in your life today and still be tied to someone back time I just I didn’t feel it was right for him I didn’t think it was Faye so I said night and it upset both of us but I felt that was the right thing to do the next year 95 which had passed and Sidney were doing these the air flights there a line was doing special deal that you should go to Sydney for 24 hours he can database flights the midnight horror one midnight to six AMC contrivance in its exam and holiday in Sydney and then at 9 PM that I’m not crazy about you hundred dollar return tickets which is just upset sorry a group of us pioneers like me with a good free day from and share you in Bethel UK sunlight all really and that will am sure that you do we do that we always say there were three of us that went and I’d had to reach Sasha beforehand to tell you that we will can come over and could heal I said to her for said that we could see Bethel and lunch she had to be sponsored by someone had lunch they will Sasha organize himself to be the till guide and we were he’s gets to the lunch anyway by the end of that day as we went back to the airport something obviously was going on between Sasha and I and we agreed to start a long-distance relationship which long-distance relationships to hide for anyone who witnesses pressure is incredible that relationship and he lasted eight months because Sasha was brimming with at the flight he was what’s the expression single for the Lord single for the house they called it actually hey was an and bachelor in fact he wore a wedding ring to put single sisters a half why yes that was Sasha’s roommates Alan and Sasha didn’t feel entirely comfortable with this particular person but in this this brother basically said to Sasha you serious about the sister will not is this really what you want anyway London sure that he talks Sasha relationship and say Sasha then called me and break up the relationship send now when I tell you that I moved back to New South Wales we been broken up for about 18 months and my mother to the meeting back had nothing to do with Sasha was sometimes concerned I had nearly steak on the East Coast I was born that when I move back within six weeks Sasha cold and he gave and said that he knew I was Kenny asked if he could talk to me and I remember an event coming up to me with the sign in hand and saying stuff is fine you and I answered it and told him he had a hiding calling me after that we didn’t do but anyway that was some very interesting coursing dating as you would buy snow oh yes at Long story short we got married on 7 August 1999 hang on getting on said while Sherry Stein he with me is a knock on the door and she was nine meeting Monday night session and see Sherry Marshall class at all aborting inquisitor when the ship I don’t want to see my can see my as I said Sherry you Sasha come in place and lift them on if you are a matchmaker you have to been leading going on so you got married in August of you said 9999 nine and so how things go from there because you obviously he was a Bethel so that you go to nice I he was in Bethel for five years at that point I and ironically I’d apply to Bethel for he’s running I really wanted to get a Bethel but in others to do it kindly sent me and I stopped applying then actually as I can sounds really need help actually enjoyed being Piney site and I can see that our what any pavers just mentioning here is that while I did that caravan cleaning for little while my uncle bibs husband decided that this really wasn’t acceptable and he spake tiny bit about it told him basically find something else to they had a company where they were manufacturing and exporting underground coal mining equipment and on a bet offered me a job in the office today which was fantastic I got to work with them for 18 months had an absolute ball it was I learned so much it was a really great time and its height you guys you do the manual labor of cleaning and hats off to you I know how hot it is it’s hard work so I was thrilled and grateful to have an office job where I wasn’t physically pushed as much I understand you now as it was a great time on Peggy Sasha was in Bethel and ironically we didn’t have the opportunity of going into Bethel as a married couple straight off to marriage and Sasha and I get really serious thought with both a little unsure whether it would be the wisest decision for us and I went and spoke to assist a took her into my confidence to so to get their opinion because she had gone into Bethel Stratus married a wife as well for eight years she painting Bethel and so I asked him what advice you could give me and she made a really good comment to me she told me that what she’d had to do was she gave out the corrugation she gave up administration gave up her work she gave up all of her friends and basically was assimilated into her husband’s life and took on his friends his work his employment and she found that really challenging she said it was hard to define who she was and what her identity was through that. You know something I never even considered and thought about that and say Sasha and I talked about that together we decided nights probably best that giant going to Bethel for stuff we decided that we been describing that is that that we decided that we stay in regular Piney where Syed waiting we had we had a branch committee member Mary us and we had nine full-time students and it was was what we could form it was a simple wedding that it was what we could manage I think I think that each one of our attendees would be very surprised and somewhat dismayed to say we Sasha my heart right now but yes the 18 months of the marriage we managed to regular Piney but it was really really hot was it was tough when Sasha left Bethel he didn’t have many skills and he’s built because had pretty much gone from completing schooling I think maybe Annie did one year of pioneering maybe a little bit more before he went straight into Bethel said he didn’t have a trade to draw Ronald for back on so why humans window cleaning lack of regular fire is to say a humans window cleaning and I was doing three days week office work for an occupational health company still trying to do 90 hours a month it was hard I remember being so tired all the time just constantly drained it was it was really challenging and after about a month’s I think session owed by the point that there now but we’ll both struggling to make ends meet financially the window cleaning wasn’t always reliable very weather dependent so soon as it’s wet is no Windows getting cleaned which means this money coming in April it was just was really tough side we made the decision that we would have to stop pioneering because it was just will it was too difficult we were struggling too much and it wasn’t any assistance from anyone so what about Jehovah how well you know we prayed long and hard and was forthcoming yeah I haven’t do a lot of people I was there too and I pioneered you side that you do get that right you go yeah just just wait until I trust on Jehovah God Jehovah Bama bill that’s right details of feeding you nothings happening right with to make this happen somehow say it was it was tough so and that I found really hard stop pioneering after 10 years it was it was such a blow to my identity and so I was yes it was crushing to stop and the corrugation didn’t necessarily help because I also noticed that when you stop your no longer viewed the same way shall we say you you kind of put on it little bit of the pedestal when you pioneering you looked up to in the corrugation you stop and your status drops and drops below the others yes in the average publisher now sees you is lower you couldn’t cut it yet and there must something wrong with you there must be some reason and the yeah it can be a pretty rough time yet they you really yes you are none of the other publishers are paying for your food either night right say session I ate down the best that we cordon we wait time to get the best that we could manage but things started to change for us probably 2012 is a lot that happens when you know that you’ve been married a year or two less than them only has an eye on it back and I’m still trying toconduct a bit of an autopsy on the destruction of my faith and so to see the little landmark since way things happened and they were a number of them in 2004 session I had endured something that indicate that I like going to the detail of but what we had gone through I expected the elders today that hiding place from the storm makes went not only were purchased anywhere to be seen and it absolutely crushed me that he we wear in a situation that they knew about and they went offering any support whatsoever and that was one of the first I think the products into my faith because had to work out okay why my doing this when I came to a little IK I’m not he for Maine I’m here for Jehovah that you start reasoning things away you start T to tell use of things like that but then most things happen more incidences of head chip away and eight and it does little foundations try to support it back up with a start crumbling as well so it gets to 2012 2013 by this time I have given up on having a ministry just making ends meet is hot enough and just session I focusing on our marriage is enough getting to meetings that’s enough I’m not going to push myself to do more than that and if people don’t like it too bad it becomes my attitude and it gets supplemented by some the right word but I space supported by the fact that I’m now working full-time and on waking at a cancer practice and I feel I’m doing good work on helping people and that I suppose gave me what I felt I was missing from pioneering because when I was pioneering I felt like I was helping people and now I felt like I was helping people again and so is my meeting attendance was not scratch all my ministry wasn’t as good as what it used to be I wasn’t perturbed by that because I found satisfaction and joy in the work that I was doing and that in 2012 was when I agreed to do a university course to to use to help my position at work so that I was more educated to do the GD said that I was expected to but of course this will not university education is not to be done and I’d spoken Sasha bad at first we great together that IK on Adidas course Sasha was concerned that I’d still be able to meet my responsibilities to meeting attendance and field service on the weekends I Shorty my court week we hired a young weakness in the corrugation to help me with bookkeeping say that I would have time to focus on my studies but also still have time to focus on the credit activity and we kept it quiet that I was doing this course when I first started it Sasha wasn’t really interested in the course at all and I consult on and thought will I want to do it I need to do it I enjoy my job to get this done at either the next GE Sasha’s attitude towards it changed and quite drastically by 2013 he started showing interest in what I was learning and started to ask me questions and at the same time assesses interest changes my meeting attendance drops off more because what try to pull off was virtually impossible to try to I’m trying to pull off working full-time during university course and being a Jehovah’s Witness and a housewife and life that many irons in the fire the AAA results and what was what was crumbling faced and because I wasn’t really wasn’t interested in giving it the same attention anymore with my faith but I realized is what had to happen in order for me to say be able to open my eyes and realize the truth about the tree it was not going to happen with me at their level I was at four I would not even look at you have to have a little distance that’s why they want you even when you go on vacation or something to you take your meeting closed take your books find a kingdom hall and where are you going on vacation and they want you to do that because they know that if you break the chain and you get a little space from it your gonna start your brain can finally start processing everything that’s being drilled into your head and you’ll start looking at it with fresh eyes and a they know it can’t withstand that so they have to keep you tethered to it as much as possible so that you will stay in business control is just absolute control and in every aspect of your life so so now you’ve gotten yourself a little space little window of opportunity that’s right so how did that how did that impact your faith you having that little space there that allow you to start processing things are thinking about things differently it needs but have to say again it was in the session that was helping me more than anything else I had that bit of breathing space tonight I began to be quite troubled about 90 days and my mother-in-law who are bus witnesses and I was spending more time with them and recognizing that the good people and it began to bother me that I would be destroyed at Armageddon but again I was putting Band-Aids over so I audited the mantra I told myself at that point was no 92-will judge them I could not say they’re not going to survive that’s not Michael I trust that you will look after them and that’s as far as I can take it at that point couldn’t question past that but it was it was irritating there was something else that happened a major thing that happened in the corrugation with the family that we knew quite well and it involves one of the children and the way we saw the corrugation respond to that was absolutely appalling that disturbed by Sasha and I enormously and although it was discouraged we continued to still support that family and say that family even though they faith been completely destroyed by what happened we remained friends with them and we do to the state safety with the things that was starting to okay and there are things that we could not excuse we couldn’t just we still keep going to meetings with this thesis has everyone who has made it out knows this is not a knife and I processed these takes ye’s to break down before you can do takes years to break you down to get you in box that’s easier faster process because you’ve already got the baggage the trauma whatever it is but if you’re a kid growing up in that it still takes years to indoctrinate you as a child and is not an overnight process to get out of it and a lot of people think you know was that one thing that got you out as my usually one thing a lot of times and sometimes it can be one very dramatic huge event for a lot of us it’s just a little cut here little cut there and and eventually your for the culmination of things is one of those major culminating things was on particular concerning my husband with what happened Sasha he was a very dedicated ministerial seven and very conscientious and diligent about his duties was always the first at the whole I and while my meeting attendance had claimed he would still go anyway and he never put pressure on me and that I just can’t tell you how much I appreciated that having had so much pressure on my life to have him say in on a Tuesday night when I’m busy at work things, patient I don’t how many get back to the meeting on get back time in order to get the meeting on time and he does get very you doing the best you can that’s fine I’ll see you afterwards he he made it possible he created an environment for me to be me without judgment he just accepted it that he would always tell me on you it was going to put him in an awkward position when he got to the whole he tell me how he handled that at first it was difficult for him because he get you are sure he thought he should not well that assumption because I missed the meeting because you left legs for an awful something is going on this catastrophic people are nosy and they want to write exactly site Sasha would tell me that that was being said that he worked out a way around that he flipped the script and he would say to them you know she’s she’s busy at work tonight I’m so proud of his she’s doing such a good job you should helping people with cancer where they can send that he changed the the negativity put it into a positive and it became to be a source of irritation to seem that he would get his questioning from the corrugation so I knew that was happening but we communicated really well together but yes my my meeting attendance was waiting Sasha was then starting to get criticized by the elders because I wasn’t doing as much Sasha but I was not the exemplary life can to get your wife in line right which worsened considerably when they found out that I was doing universal course in which which I put eBay feels very badly about these I night but she can bank in all innocence and all in his do you want to tell the story I can’t we invited had been this evening with friends and then we sat down on making pizzas the children is to make pages of a very nicely when Jordan is talking and laughing sitting in I was so excited because Sherry is going to receive the Bob emeritus Memorial award for the work she was doing and I said is a wonderful she can to get this award what he said file is talking and looking looking at Sherry and his university cost we could really Be a with a knife adding 10 minutes we left. And M and really how silly is it that you should do feel bad or that anyone would look on someone getting an award for doing something good in a negative light in oh yeah? Cited anybody you should have been excited and they should have been excited to they were good friends but that’s my homework I I say session and got reprimanded he was spoken to by the elders told he had to get his wife in line and I have to keep the meeting me doing university course and by then the cost is all done and dusted I finished it but yeah and the pressure began to build taking because one of the elders had tried to do the mentor thing pull Timothy King and was wanting to get him to be appointed in elder and had told him on a number of cases we can get today but Sasha was not interested at in that the slightest by this time he was fully awake he was just hanging in to work out how to take me away, so that’s why he was just sort of enduring situation but he was wanting the tension from the elders to be an elder and he I think was finding more and more difficult to see how callously they were dealing with ones in the corrugation and Helen inclined where we so once he was struggling he will also dealing with the same pressure we were dealing with to a finding it hard to get to meetings finding it hard to answer up finding it hard to get more than two hours on the report card and the elders would just have to ship out team and judgmental and looking at the useless they can’t get this on the knock you again and Sasha was kinda becoming an advocate and speaking up and send me you don’t know what’s going on in their lives what you going to see him and just genuinely ask how they are judging right here yet well ascertained that right side the stain the elders didn’t like that Sasha was questioning them the more pressure was building the elders were not liking this you could start to see in meeting pots or in answers that he would get in the watchtower and where the fuse yields in particular that Sasha just had to please hand up and you could see the bristle system plants were growing and it all rested in January 2015 with sick… Visit and cut a long story short basically see I hold him into the back room with another elder present and by this time Sasha was out of patience with the whole thing and his just look what you then push me into this meeting what she said that if he can ever make me what are you doing just get it done more quickly that was his attitude which did not go down very well with them and the end result was of course he was eight a Sasha step down and he was removed whatever he was no longer seven and the attitude change again to get the attitude change when you stop being regular piney and attitude change again became no longer being a servant is drastic you feel like you out on the ledge and now all of a sudden you’re not in the clique and you’re not invited to social events anymore and you either looked for things it’s the fast forward a few months to June 2015 and that’s when the cat well and truly came at the bank because the young witness we had working for us had Fossett to round on the work computer and had seen that Sasha was on a forum for ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses and that was it as soon as she saw it she went straight to the elders and told them and the elders had an emergency meeting the next morning and they told they didn’t call us that entellus anything how we found out was that Saturday afternoon following day the employee a employ a close up and said that she was calling to let us know that she can work with us anymore and we were perplexed we didn’t know why and she just said you know why to Sasha Sasha was didn’t know what to make of that I certainly didn’t know what to make of that and she got off the fine prima straight after said she had gotten hung up and left swill like what was Sasha try calling her back she wouldn’t respond eventually he got onto his father who was one of the elders and he enlightened us as to what had happened and it did the whole universal trauma to them of course he was doing that always so upset was so distressed you just Melissa told us that you’ve been looking at these websites and then Sasha had to tell me after he got upset fine coal he then had to tell me what the Zelda had said and I learned that my husband had been on apostate websites and I was horrified because even though I was weak spiritually that was huge that was just enormous is a huge amount because for most people yet and I was stunned now that’s part of the stories well because the day we found this out we were going into the city to spend time we a bed and a work colleague of mine will going to see the ice hockey and we had this fun coal on the way into that event sub of the time we got in such robust traumatized and united the is not hiding these this is not something you just double talk about it later next to Scott have good night it was no possibility is that so I went in to say on event in Donner and I had to again until the book something really big happened and we try to get our heads around it and it just spoilt the whole weekend the following day on the Sunday when Sasha and I returned back time after same hockey we had the most agonizing day to I had to find out and I was terrified to find out how far to disguise wanting to look on on websites but I need to understand how far he’s questioning weight and I’m trying asking and I could see at the same time while and asking him such as being open to my questions he’s wanting to be truthful but he’s just as terrified as to how I’m going to respond to his answers it was an excruciatingly painful day and Sasha was being as honest as he could with me he was he was just heartbroken he was devastated he was distraught and I was so distressed to see him like that because he’s such a strong confident man into the type of person you can always go to with problems and to listen to you and then help you work out a way to fix it right and to see him sell and sure was just got wrenching I deal with points where he was collapsed on the floor sobbing was just heartbreaking to say it was really tough but we managed to get through it together we go through that night we there was no we can attack each other at any point we just listen to one another and try to understand where we’re both coming from Monday proved to be really hard for me because I then had to go into the office and the same girl who had just resigned was also working at the practice and I had to face her and that was really hard because I wanted to say a few things that I couldn’t because to that to and then next weekend we go to the meeting on Tuesday night neither of us could but on the Sunday I thought I felt we should I think Sasha was just happy to go with whatever I felt we needed today’s site we went to the meeting and that was the last meeting we ever attended because the reaction from the corrugation was and how you’re supposed to put up with that kind of behavior they you could tell in every looking every glance in all the body language they knew what was going on the gossip mill had worked itself over time earlier this was GC this was sensational that I thought that a huge scandal yet and they were all over and he was just site you could feel it and then you had this elder that hung around from the moment we arrived until the meeting started then he went sat with his family and then he was back straight after he was like a police dog making sure that Sasha had no interaction with anybody else in the corrugation that same elder had tried calling me during the break at work trying to get information from me on Sasha which I do not feel comfortable with and I told Sasha about it seems I time it was just it was such a hard time after that diet session I kind of mutually agreed we didn’t like that and the weeks to start by reading guarded meetings Sundays Sasha conveniently made something else more enjoyable let’s go for a drive let’s let’s go again do some shopping he does have a root canal that would be a lot more comfortable you just anything else and time started to guide by and while as time started to go by the silence from the corrugation became louder and I started to think he it’s one thing you knew what was going on Sasha but no inspection may hear it all rights how important I am now what is you do I hadn’t done anything is true being a woman is a good thing and in the organization but Italy if there truly shepherds they should be concerned about their see who now they think is married to a wolf I mean they should they should have been all over you trying to help you out but like you said it feels like there were nowhere to be found in the typical night and I I knew that the only way to get any of their attention was to walking talking to people I would have to make this means there is not going to be anyone making this means to me I had to do it and I just thought not I’m not interested in doing I just had I’m not going to put up with that kind of behavior that’s just to get so we can get back to meetings out while that was the case I I can still honestly say that I still believed I was a huge difference between not going to meetings because craps happened and then realizing that the religion you’ve been raised in was a complete line shame that had happened to me yet and Sasha Blake’s cotton socks he let me discover that for myself thinking you that you’ve got to be in control of that you have to you’ve got to work through that yourself you can’t have someone else showing you you have to have the courage to do it yourself I didn’t have that courage so this is now 20 and 2015 meet the district regional convention comes along and session I had some little discussion about whether we detain we both went not really wanting to so we just didn’t and then the next big test was Mott at March 20 16th the memorial and we both discussed that to integrate and the weeks prior I had a few conflicting thoughts and feelings about it but again I just thought you didn’t want to go I’ll actually think of any more uncomfortable going than being uncomfortable not going so we didn’t go but I still believed it wasn’t until November 2016 30 November 2016 that it all just fell apart for me and that was when the findings report from the strain will commission that it was released on 28 November and I was down in Melbourne on the 30th for web conference just a one day thing is at the airport and melted after this conference and it was scraping early flights and then I was going to work straight afterwards but the flight was delayed by that now and so I texted Sasha distilling night flights delayed and he that it takes to guess how well you could rate the ISC report to pass the time and I take seam document that would just piecemeal and down he just replied something funny I can’t even what it the safest right I’m sitting that I’ve got an outline now of time my letter and I just have a look at it solidified my Google lease train will commission in put tribes weaknesses and set in and I started reading and it literally was like time stood still everything just stood still it was and was just incredible I was in a crowded terminal and I felt my heart raced right out of me it was to watched it was just a shocking rating reading the testimonies of PCP and DCJ I was horrified absolutely horrified that the manner in which they wrote the report it was so clinical it was so emotionally detached it was it was legalese it was just presenting fat which made it so credible it was just undeniable what happened and as I read every word I knew what I was reading was true that have a testimony in there as well from the brother and so was the whole thing it was the hall was 110 pages and had everything I it wasn’t a transcript it wasn’t the transcript a look at what it was was the fight the conclusion the conclusions of of of what they had found cheering case study 29 so it didn’t go into all listed graphic detail when into enough yeah yeah but it summarized all of the findings and it went through what the recommendations were the end what they conclusions where the course the gross negligence of the organization the failure to understand what child takes a BCs date ignorance and arrogance everything was that it was worded brilliantly at just I could not stop reading it I sat there in that crowded terminal this find is stuck in my head I could not thinking I couldn’t stop reading and I remember finally the boarding call came for the flight and I waited till just about the last passenger I still had this finding front of me I read it as I boarded the plane I read it to take off through the flight through landing I read it why stood at the baggage terminal waiting for my bag I read it when I got the taxi to work and by the time to work I was in so much turmoil I did actually helical through the work day and I got Sasha and he didn’t know I’d break the purple until I got time and when I got hired I to say to them it’s not the truth it’s not the truth cannot they it’s just not and he just he was also support I needed and I’m so lucky I realize how lucky I am because so many witnesses that wake up tight habitat yeah that’s a terrifying position to be in to be that want to pay bio cells coming to that knowledge to I cannot I can’t fathom what I was just so lucky to have the support that I did he was just tremendous but even he didn’t us and he realizes not to treat an entity everything he still withheld knowledge he still was patient with me and said he let me just go through all of the horror that I needed to that weekend I watched all of the videos that the ISC back to back so Jeff rejection Jackson’s hideous attempt to testimony and what what brought it home to me even more was you these people I knew that Jackson had met Terry O’Brien I had met Robbie speaks admit until several times I knew a lot of these people who are giving up cooling testimonies Doug Jackson I knew really well because way back when Austin Scott Bryce that young little piney he was the first second FC hand his wife had spent three years the three years that I was in Scott back and we were close and he said those despicable things that testimony he write that letter when he said that Bill Neil could be re-appointed as an elder want to do don’t die down the depth of my heart I could not articulate it was just hideous and then I realized that I’d met Bill Neil and that I need the family and the I had probably met at some point I bumped into base AB which just made it even more horrific it just dumb changed my life reading that report you alluded earlier to a situation that you are aware of any variation where you are Sasha supported the family and was there it sounds like you just what you you have talked about that a little bit off Michael was the fact that you knew that situation and now you’re watching the a the Australian Royal commission on child abuse and you’re seeing way it wasn’t just that family and it wasn’t just that one time in a congregation of some sort of anomaly now you’re saying this systematically this is been a thing and that the people that are entrusted at the top it all the the people who are working at the branch in such a giving such garbage answers and skirting the questions I would have to imagine that it was your being able to call back to that time and that family was that something that really helped you to see you again not absolutely it was definitely link out with that when we got to know that family quite intimately and still do guess we were putting all the dots together and it wasn’t that family you when you was another case as well – yes we we where saying Pandora’s box I’ve been here and realizing the horror of the situation and for me I think these issues child sex abuse issue was always going to be the trigger because I can remember when I first started pioneering this was 91 is just when they lead was being lifted off the Catholic Church and the horror of what we had been of priestess being moved from one parish to another city they could and everyone’s horrified public and was horrified that for a 16-year-old piney and going from door to door speaking to people who had said not lost my faith I used to be Catholic I can’t stand religion anymore because of these and I had to come back because hey I can’t blame you for that but I’d walk away from that door and think Satan you horrible person you turn these people away from Jehovah and I also turned from the still stinking that will never happen with Jehovah’s Witnesses because we have the truth citizens of the trial that I felt and that I can’t even begin to scratch the surface of the trial that actual survivors don’t write I feel enormously fitting I just my heart comes out to them that they had to interview such atrocities to not be believed test I I take it as a source of pride now that that is the line that I can know I’d a.k.a. Howard with my life before what pride I took in being witness you don’t get to excuse that you just start you’ve got a look at the that kind of ugliness in the face because those victims the symbolizes need to be heard and they need to be understood and they need to know that it’s not acceptable and so my collected enemies it’s not acceptable and I want to accept it and I believe religion are direct I don’t care what costs are you can show me you can do whatever you want to me you can call me names you can say lies about me I don’t care what you do to me that the sake of those victims and the survivors I leave whatever eddies so in the organization Jehovah’s Witnesses they like to talk about how essentially it’s been so long since I’ve read the Scriptures but so essentially if you don’t call out a person for their send in your sharer in there said yes and you have 8 million Jehovah’s Witnesses that know these things now and now maybe not every individual bots are they tacitly condoning this and supporting it by continuing to support the organization and by making excuses for the organization you know what we just didn’t know what it was what was like back then will you know what you claim to be God led him so why is God always behind why why what what in God warn you about this before instead of you know at all afterward now you after the world at large finds out that you on these sexual predators there’s so much more to them why is it that it takes the world at large to figure this out if you are led by God wanting God tell you why did God let all these kids be hearts at an end you know you can’t claim that you’ve got so God can prophesy of the fall of Babylon the great or he can have prophecies for all these things but he can’t protect children and and if you read in the Bible something that that really bothered me about this whole’s circulars situation and am though hold everything that happens to these kids if you look in the Scriptures there are commands and scriptures about beast reality there are you you shouldn’t commit beast reality you should know man should lie with man you shouldn’t have sex out of marriage but where is the Scripture that says that you can’t sexually abuse children there’s nothing in the Bible that protects the most vulnerable human beings on the planet it is never mentioned and it goes as far as to specifically mentioned animals and things like that just ridiculous things in the Mosaic law as far as where city can be spelled in the eyes of the horrible things but nothing about kids and ill so I think that these situations when they arrived it’s easy for Jehovah’s Witnesses to try to write it off as we didn’t know or make all these excuses but there condoning something that if they knew that her brother sister in the car radiation was doing such a thing or was cheating on their spouse or whatever and they didn’t speak up and tell the elders than they would be seen as blood guilty and their be seen as a share in the sin and yet they are all watching these kids be abused and no one is doing anything and they’re coming up with excuse after poor excuse and yet claiming to have the one and only truth to be the only true Christians on earth and that you don’t Jehovah God is supporting them and if he is in his hands pretty sure does not know he can’t really reach very far is because he’s a pretty powerless God so did did this so obviously this shook you regarding the organization did it shake you regarding your faith. That and God of the Bible or did it start you down the path of just wondering you know where that led as far as taking the beliefs apart upset the first gender break to come in to make it all toppled right later on I think that was his eighth November and December we were actually going up on a trip to Hamilton Island without a bed and it was it was it was actually quite the timing was perfect because I started to assess her a few more questions and he started to share with me in a way that I felt safe he showed me JW fax and he just left me with it to just rate it and I started to come across a few things on JW fax that really started to make a big impact already great article on misleading quotes and lies that one right I weld a few degrees because especially having piney it’s a long where I just relied on everything that came out of watchtower as being true and accurate and then I found out I have just been using clicks in a way to make it look like the point of trying to get across when you actually can pay the quite back to you find that it does not no intention of being applied the way the watchtower applied it at just and now lies that were put into material and the way pull write that article he just get back to that comparison is no interpretation of it it was night she wasn’t trying to build a case of United lying in it make any accusations just laid out the evidence and the evidence speaks for itself that that really me and I that either the months to come so she would to show me all maybe you might like to statically might like that article be left me to sort of find it out myself and I suppose I say in a week since I had the joy of waking it out for myself that’s not really the right word the horror of finding out myself and the things that rocked my world was of course the beak 106 I set up a file finding out that that was not that was not to date that Jerusalem was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar in fact one I had to go to New South Wales state library over and I drank some strong leaders in right as soon as he was was a great little experiment I was already clear in the index because you’re searching in the index for anything on success seven and right crickets, back in is nothing coming back please search for destruction of Jerusalem to the kidney thought and 587 keeps, the other was to be found nothing remarkable happened in 607 Bay CA lead line Jerusalem being destroyed it’s there’s nothing they just the 1914 in folds under that one everything was just falling potluck has saccades and at the same time is that because I was now turning either the stones at every little cherished beliefs that I’d had how could I not they’d have the courage to neither the big ones the Bible God Christ I had to look under diocese well and now I was looking at it from a different point of view I wasn’t looking at it as the belief of the police without question I was now looking at it as the skeptic as the well I’ve had some really big beliefs shaken and I’ve seen the not true so now proved to me that true and I couldn’t find evidence of those looking at the Bible as you just said why why are they not things to protect children and I began to realize that the Bible was written by mean with the best of knowledge that they had time there wasn’t anything divine about it because it was divine when I expect that I expect to poke to not condone slavery expected books that traits humans better particularly women and children that would be nice you and I I began to realize I started to listen to a different podcast because trying to eek you can get lost in this will wind when you start uncovering it becomes obsessive and like it doesn’t it doesn’t feel good inside because everything gets turned upside down and I was I was angry I was really angry I was upset I was distressed because I felt like and I had a not been like to I and I felt used and manipulated and I felt foolish because you did to live believe these things sincerely and and now who am I and what do I believe and yet but it takes a while to sort that out right go to work that out the soulful over again and what do I believe and what is my identity because if you’d asked me when I was 19 who was I surfacing I tell you is unwanted chives witnesses that was who I was that was my identity now that’s not me anymore so who am I and I felt like I literally had to go back to the drawing board pick up the pieces of the jingle puzzle again and try to rebuild it somehow that there’s a book by Eckert Tollway called a new earth and in it he talks about the ego and I remember the when we were reading it before we were actually out I remember in their talks about the ego identifies with certain things so the ego identifies with being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses but you one thing that we all have after we leave you were all trying to find ourselves right but there is a core self that was there before all these labels were put on it before all these expectations are these experiences were put on it there is us at the core and that has never changed other things of been added to it but we can still be this were still the same person at our base and that it has been something I’ve tried to remember because I’ve always been there you know it was just covered up with the layers of garbage that were piled on top of it once you clear all that away you’re still there and it’s a freer and lighter place to be when you don’t have all that stuff laid on top of you you’re not caring that around all the time and the but it just goes to show how ego driven something like being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses is it’s your identity it’s who you are it’s how you think it’s how you act and it’s all about appearances and things like that and all those things really have no substance when could you can strip all that away and you’re still there so you know what a waste to put all that on and the know it does it’s not fun to look back and see that you carried all that for all those years and years and you’re not alone we have talked about feeling prank as well as bikes I played a trick on you for decades incident it’s easy to reason away from it in the say while obviously I was up against something bigger than me or I was raised in an all that but emotionally you still have to deal with it and it takes a while for your emotions to catch up to your head and having that something that ever that’s the struggle everybody goes through when they leave is even once they start learning things intellectually trying to get your feelings to match up when they’ve been driven a certain way your whole life that’s the hard part you feel such a enormous sense of loss yes absolutely that because just as all of that crumbles away begin to realize that the other beliefs are true as well such as the resurrection height yes say you guys to every grieving process or perhaps perhaps more appropriately to say you grave for the first time yes because you want able to graze if you’d lost someone not in the way that had a human should be able to do an healthy way now because you have to show everybody else you have the hope right that’s right sorry yeah you you you grave either the resurrection height you grave of the ones you’ve lost you grave I thought I’m not going to live forever now I am not going has this utopia and you actually look at the utopia from different point of view and realize sexually this type you wasn’t actually a healthy thing anyways say you analyze all of that and then you realize hey on 42 and I’ve lost so much of my life in this religion I’ve lost so many opportunities and you’ve got to get your head around that as well and again as a salmon optimist style I was able to sort out set around and go okay all right you’ve lost some time but you still have a lot of time hitting to make as much difference as you can and to not longer be defined by that I did go and seek counseling because I just had so many emotions trying to deal with that I had about six sessions with hair and she asked me a question in the second session that I really grappled with she asked me to find something positive about the racist witness and at that time I was so full of anger I could not think of anything positive that she tried, subtly positive step will you and you where raised have a moral code and I would say right and that moral code teaches people hate transsexuals and to be prejudiced about anyone he’s not a Jehovah’s Witness and that they should die in Armageddon you that moral codes really healthy if sarcasm was a very useful and then she’d will you were a full-time volunteer helping other people yes you can only do that as volunteer work and when you look at his volunteer work that so that you can teach other people about your full selection you’re not allowed to do any useful kinds of volunteering because why would you invest yourself into a world that’s dying you not going to do that so I that is not a healthy thing a every time she made while the wicked added to me that 12 month to try to find something positive about being racist witness and I have to say that if I had not had the experience I wouldn’t be who I am today and I would be able to have the opportunity I hope you have the opportunity to help as many people as I can if I can help others be supported in concepts in a listening ear for them I don’t think I have the capacity to do that if I had not been raised in religion like that you mentioned earlier the word empathy is major and empathetic person in the eye thing that if you live a life where your kept away from problems you can’t see how other people have it but once you’ve had something like this happen you can see you can start to look at other people and say well everybody thought I was fine I wonder what’s behind the mask of this person will be we all were mass so you start seeing things deeper which and I completely agree that that is one thing here to deal with myself to be able to to develop that empathy I would say that that’s I’m glad you actually brought that up funny timing of them in a coaching program and the I was asked what is something that would be positive and I’ve had I have not been able to come up with anything and I do think that just going through’s unfortunately sometimes it takes going through something awful to help us to be able to see what other people might be going through to see that there might be more beneath the surface and the it’s really beautiful point that you made that I helped me to so that I helped Mike that I’m sure you’ll help a lot of lot of people with the minute I think that this is a really interesting to of labor have to I’m so pleased that Sherry session system will time in 40 we can have Christmas to get out this year I didn’t for the body by the time I got mine my interview and Sherry’s cousin is going to join us as well sell on through to the `that’s beautiful that’s beautiful love it just on that and you use it to you related to an earlier week I realize when we in this religion what we are costing our family a eights it has proactive and I close it together and now having my moms now working up as well last day 46 uses the business and you know she’s now celebrating her birthday that the fence we had Mother’s Day together for the first time this year not buying her Christmas presents and we getting to sharing these things that we never had to be full but the impact it has on a family that whenever witnesses had to sit on the sidelines and watch that’s what has been involved I don’t think we realize that when not the only victims here to the victimhood it’s is a domino effect yet so many people are impacted by not listening and I could neither into the doorstep of the kingdom hall and gain I was in town with my niece and she wanted to listen on the Sunday morning to what ecologists want to dolling to the meeting I see you and I probably don’t going on and assess patient got up and said if you rearrange the words of Santa it’s his sanction I absolutely blew my talk because to me I still believe in Santa Christmas had a wonderful time can pull anything off and I cannot listen to it again thank you very much yeah they they really like to be judgmental in the things they say and and they have no problem taking apart it’s funny they have no problems taking apart the beliefs or the joy or whatever of someone else that they days they sit in judgment of the entire world but don’t dare ever criticized them as its it’s the epitome of a narcissist that sits on on high and tells everybody else how horrible they are the second that you shine a mirror on valvular satellite on them all the sudden they’re being attacked and you’re a horrible person for attacking them and their poor persecuted them at and use you see it’s like the embodiments of that one quality in an entire organization how and not to see all could you I think what I would do that I wish may put it on YouTube are so so ultimately then what was the stand that you took are you did you disassociate I really wanted to disassociate of because I know that’s real and I went when I finished reading the ASA report I wanted to literally disassociate sure from the organization I did not want to be seen to condone it at all and I I wanted to have no affiliation with that organization at all at the time value family circumstances were different and and Sasha made some really good points respecting the data and he said died play the game they words that they use and it’s Dave rules you don’t have to play by them you are disassociated by the fact that you don’t go any more you don’t have to put in a letter to be honest I still struggle with that is a part of me that still wants to do that that wants it to be formal and legitimized that I want them to know the level of horror I feel and that I want nothing to do with them I hadn’t done it yet maybe time will change maybe off I made you still will at the time when I first thought about it I was so care of my father and he is he remains a devoted believing witness that he was quite sick I was the one living closest to him I had a jeering guardianship and power of attorney and took control of his doctors appointments etc. so I knew that if I disassociated I would be making that impossible to caffeine so I I didn’t do it at that stage things that have changed as far as my relationship with my father is concerned Elliott this year in September my husband and I had an interview with Lloyd Evans and just before that Kazaa can say what impact would be if that dad. It say in the weeks leading up my language started to change a bit with data started to he would make comments about I know one day come back he was hopeful that one day I would return he thought I was just disillusioned and discouraged because of what the organization had done his first child abuse was considered to Hydro fix it in time was he so sure yet that I started to say to him dad I’m not coming back you can’t know the things I know and come back it’s not possible you can’t un-see what I’ve researched and I’ve researched a lot and either those weeks we started to have a few more conversations and I i.e. delicately as gently as I could started to explain to dad where I stood that I no longer believe in the Bible and that I don’t believe there is a God and this was horrific things for him to he I know I understand that I had turned my and you are the next but I needed to be honest with him and I discussed it to my.want to I want to be deceitful to you I don’t want to be betraying myself in a way that gives you hype the recent hype on not returning that I’m still your daughter and I’m still happy to look after you he couldn’t do it he couldn’t do it he write me a card I actually just before the card happened we got the same on a Sunday I guess we bought him an iPad so that he could watched IW broadcasting and said a lot for him showing how to use it the iPad needed an update he had no ID had to do it it needed a Wi-Fi connection yada yada yada we sorted that out we brought it back to them on the Sunday and on that Sunday dad asked to some questions he wanted to understand a bit more where I stood and he wanted to know we Sasha stood the conversation went well it was hard for he and he act up a few things that should listen to the points where he loosely had cognitive dissonance you it just wasn’t adding up to him he was finding it very hard Sasha are quite gentle and how he explained team except is funny what the trick is a when he asked about the flood and he asked us if we believe that it happened and Sasha said nine there is evidence actually got really upset can’t handle that he could not handle that we did not believe in the flood while I one of the easiest things to destroy that you know what he used his next play ice caps ice caps aware of the watery’s from the flat batch evidence that it was a flat side I look anyway another worthy of you can find one thing that you could conceivably somehow set them into proof than that’s all you need to is all you need even though I’m have been proven that all the water on earth including the others have come when I cover the dance and uneducated me I’m not saying you stupid is not stupid he tries and he needs his beliefs exec and that’s that’s actually the court that he needs to believe that what added to the conversation that day was the much touted big studies on Sunday and it was about a card with the title of it now but it was basically that loyalty to Jehovah and there was a paragraph that he handed me two great basically the paragraph was on what type of associates you choose as a Associates that help you to build your relationship with Jehovah and if they’re not associates that do that should she be spending time with them hey use that paragraph and said to me I have to consider my relationship with you and Sasha said to him he made it very clear to he said if you cut Sherry off all their support stops because I want say Sherry abused and that’s it I know I know that would happen he says I just need to give it some thought so we left that day knowing himself into a corner with that kind of reasoning watchtower puts out I couldn’t say how he could perform the mental gymnastics to somehow keep a relationship with his now atheist daughter and the wake had passed before I received a card from him saying he would have to cut the relationship with me because he felt that having a relationship with his daughter would be an act of disloyalty to Jehovah be the end of course what the weather conflating is Jehovah with the organization right unit so because the honest truth is you you’re an atheist but if you weren’t an atheist and you still believed in God even call them Jehovah everywhere one of Jehovah’s Witnesses the answer still the same really has nothing to do with believe in and even in God its belief in that specific organization and that’s it you keep the iPad of course yes well believe me we did hot when they first got the card we were kind of that they were taking everything back into an emotive response for sure and I and I understand that but it’s a pretty big betrayal on his part even though you can excuse the way with the the reasoning behind why he would be that way but emotionally it still feels like a pretty big betrayal so you’re going to react that way so we went sulking the week after I had worked out what I needed to do full the legal side of things because as their detainee and the Guardian I can’t change the documents that has to come from he legally I went sought legal advice to find out what if anything I could do and the Lord did not he has to change that he no longer wants you as power of attorney and injuring Guardian he’s can change that and because I was the one made of stockings happen in the first place I knew what the likelihood was of human I can see what can happen here if I don’t do something illegal happened to land up in hospital and I’ll still be dragged into it to sign I then asked the label if I write letters to each of the entities and explained that his wishes changed and I asked them to remove my contact details until such time as he gives you instructions with that be appropriate and he said yes so that’s what I did I took a day off work and I took before I was to do the right of these letters and I wrote one letter to dad outlining everything I had done and basically giving him a handover of way everything was up to where his appointments were up to where he stills were up to where the legal matters were up to the ones that I couldn’t change instructions with that he needs to follow up on I explained everything you’re nicer than me that I may decide that you and III wanted to conduct myself in a way that I could headband and say you’ll do nasty apostate just yet the stereotypical nasty Peter I wanted to conduct myself in a way that was still honorable know and I I understand that but they’re gonna say that anyway.you had an interesting twist really yes because the day before we were going to make humanized ISS to do: I thought I’m not contacting now you see semi-a card like that so I Sasha can you: telling will come Friday afternoon at 2 o’clock and and denigrates it was fine that he call back a few hours later and say can we make it three and Sasha called me and told me know and they’ll be no debate know it will be an elder that there is no reason seem to change the time we doubt that happening and sure enough there was an elderly but it actually backfired on dad because the elder that dad asked to come also happen to be dense landlord so I’ve had a bit to do with team in discharging my responsibilities as power of attorney and anyway when I turned up and I saw… I didn’t know you basically he was horrified he said the father tell you baby did not he said I told him to call you until you set actually feel teaming on the story as to why he was actually day Don didn’t know what he was about to say so anyway I was Sasha I would be able to dad and on and on I said to dad will of God everything ready for you with where had to get this done and that’s it all I know I’ve been getting calls all morning I had realized this as I get all these letters and I sent them that morning he was getting phone calls from each of the doctors in each of the institutions to say we’ve just been advised that Sherry’s no longer to be your contact is that correct said he knew I was taking seriously I was not just Canadian I keep doing things for him this was happening so he wasn’t exactly thrilled don’t just watch TJ 15 you what his role was things got heated very quickly because dad started today get very upset with me Sasha was a can have a bar that why would he be upset he asked for this night that he is the God of well yeah entities he said Sherry can make it really how to me and I said I I know it will I know it will design a how much work is been involved in supporting you but I’m honoring your wishes your card made it very clear that you no longer want to have anything to do with me so I’m just doing what you’ve asked for it didn’t have to go this way it it got it got really really ugly really ugly to the point of dad ordering stuff around the house and interestingly when Sasha took his leave the elder didn’t fire the he wanted to get out of there I think is quickly left me behind with dad and and I was able to say things that’s as a daughter I needed to say I started this interview by saying that the pain couples as a child and it wasn’t the easiest childhood and I I think I’m very happy with how I conducted myself in a final meeting with dad whether I had to get straight to me get on a tight night that I hold my head high and you I did me to and when he got really gnarly towards the end and he made it sound like he was the mosque and it was happening here he was you know that you said you got a new the Bible and I stopped him and I said no you don’t get to do that you don’t get to put words in my mouth I have never said those words never said that please don’t misrepresent me and then like a vision on you how things would get a guy I said to him and know it can happen from this point on you can step in the back you going to make me sound like the worst person ever even a hate me out to be the villain and he was shocked he said why do you say that lasted 43 years of knowing you I’ve seen you do it to so many others you gonna talk to me to he was incensed he said getting an asset to my case that’s final guy I just have one final thing to say I know what buttons to push Eisai watched him I just said to them Gary have a nice life and because I said Gary I used his first name that was like a well that just blew him up you and given the proper respect as a writer yeah on the of the authoritarian right he blew up had day you call me by your first name and I said to my final words said you don’t deserve the intimacy of father and I walked out the door and now my final words good for you I felt it was a frankly my dear I cannot give a damn minute yeah how is my go that was my moment but interestingly when I look outside the elder was still there was Sasha and the elder was just completely perplexed but he’s not what you know that had been written while he had it they showed he read and he said well this night misinterpreting that he’s made it very clearly and in the elder said something that was dislike you’ve got to be kidding me he said I don’t understand why you found this cutting you off it’s fine if you have family weaknesses we’ve got to disfellowshipped family and our family that we still say and I’m thinking about you keep that one quiet you don’t bring that up in the meetings now Miro that how he I was really quite shocked to hear what he did tell me this elder was not seeing since the bad guys he was actually quite supportive which shocked me is also worried about the rent to you not wrong I would yeah yeah the sound like your dad can have his back together most likely I know he pointing somebody else do you so so are so clearly you’re out now do you know if there is a narrative among those that knew you as to why you left do you know if there’s anything that I I know I’m not painted with the same brush Sasha I think I’m saying is collateral damage I was all been blamed on how you not long after the interview with Lloyd I worked up the carnage somehow to walk up to the cot in a local area that was there with two sisters and a brother day and on using the trades them and when Sasha purchased the car he gets completely shunned totally ostracize like I try not to engage with you at all so I wanted to see what the response would be for me and I will cut that first one is she could get a double take sort of recognized meeting all old and they didn’t know what to do to hello to talk to a duet what to do the other sister was an elder’s wife and she just came straight up hi Sherry how are you with me saying you and I acknowledge take nice to see Jill and when she still we miss seeing you at the meetings I said to hell thank you for saying that’s nice to hear you wouldn’t know it by as it’s been three years and not one person has knocked on my door to find me to ask how I am I just looked at her and to get it I know it’s going on I know it’s been said I understand anyway I didn’t say 12 is going when Connie get some coffee would you like some coffee nine I that will find I’m shaking like a leaf on do it it wasn’t easy to walk up to them so nervous and I was also really dismayed at my reaction is being so upset that he went went got coffee comes of Dan came back around to pass the beginning and she again made a comment about we miss seeing you at the meetings and would love to have you back and I said to Jill I went into becoming that might be happening on much better off now I’m really happy I’m doing well if I had my time is it was a comment I should’ve made you we wasting to hindsight because her husband is an elder and he was the and he made not one effort to come either to me so it all is this we miss you we miss you but I would love to have said was if you really miss me why is your husband ill today he was the one he’s in a position to provide assistance and support not even acknowledging the fact that I’m standing he it would seem to date that this missing his whole life you but I just want to tell me that’s best answer your question is that I can still be spoken to you somehow so I don’t think they know not yet how far it’s gone for me so what would if you had something you could say to those people if you say anything that you wanted to the people that maybe let’s say don’t shun you yet but may eventually or may eventually be put in the position where you have to or whatever what would you say to them I wouldn’t think of ambush of the just you knew who I was what type of witness which you have described me as how would you describe me what you think could possibly happen that would change that once you think about it thinking that you need me to know that this is not just a passing fancy this is based on evidence this is based on fact and IAG to look at it to and if you need someone to support you through it all baby I’ll be there to help you that look at me look at my life look he knew me today and realized it had to be something of significance to make me want nothing to do with now and that funny the contrast between that is a wonderful point and it makes me think of the like they had a brochure and satellite return to Jehovah or something and in it they give the reasons people leave the reasons they want people to believe that people leave 8010 miss something as simple as I get all hurt feelings in the congregation discouragement or something like that you think these people who have devoted their entire life to a thing to leave just because some brother sister look at them sideways making them all has nothing to do with that it got to be a huge deal I have asked if I think you discouragement a price we all had fun we kept going and we kept telling say it’s not right right so I think that’s a wonderful thing to leave them with so now you have a new life I ask you first what you like about the new life that you currently have a way to.it’s wonderful it’s it’s really really wonderful and it’s exciting it’s some I’m learning new things I feel like a sponge later again psyching things out I’m trying to break free from what I was as a piney particularly I was judgmental and arrogant and dogmatic I knew the traits I have absolute in those opinions now I try very hard to the opposite I don’t want to beat up medical yes I Come to some conclusions but I’m trying to be flexible if that’s the right word with that sci-fi can use an example let’s talk that one of the big ones got right now for me to believe that me to believe extraordinary claim he needs to be extraordinary evidence I don’t say that extraordinary evidence is that extraordinary evidence comes about then I will be happy to reevaluate my opinions and my thoughts on that in but for me right now I don’t say and so that’s why I’m trying not to be dogmatic and say anything in an absolute safe sure sure I can’t say there is no God obviously things change in life yet yes things to change but right now that’s where I sit I am hungry about learning more and I’m hungry about pushing my brain to understand more so I’m reading a lot listening a lot and listening to podcasts and I find so exciting learning new things and just exploring what I once knew because I should learning about evolution and understandable trying to understand think I do understand all of it I’m trying to learn I’m so excited that that’s just fantastic getting to meet new people learning to create relationships with other people without judging them with just hearing them and seeing them for who they are I find that so incredibly exciting and more rewarding than any of the relationships I’ve had before I’m so excited about that I think that’s wonderful it’s brought a new dynamic to my life that I didn’t realize I didn’t have I’m enjoying work more the relationship that Sasha has now is on a completely different level we see ourselves each other as equals we discussed things we have great conversations now and when not mirror copies of each other we had we can have different points of view on subjects and it’s not an argument it’s not I know you must believe these it’s an interesting point of view why do you think that the IK only baby things about it’s just I’m really excited about where I am on this wonderful trading in the US with my fantastic were having a bull of the time meeting always wonderful people is much to be excited about so I’m I’ve used that would how many times now I’m really I’m loving life and loving life I know Annie has a short time on this S and I am okay with that and I don’t know why way he I think it needs to be an answer to why we he just baby and enjoy it and make the most of it makes and make the biggest impact you can on other human beings to make their lives better so speaking to that are there any dreams you have for your new life anything that you want to do any bucket list items or is there anything that your and is there anything that you want to is there an impact that you may want to make is there is what are your dreams for the new life going forward well I think on this trip on the in a few bucket items off Neil Huxley Niagara Falls that you guys that was on the bucket list but I podcast it at least I just been having a fantastic time opening up doors that fantastic what do I want to do this a lot I think I can do I’m not sure where that’s been a guy for me to everybody has a clear sense of the and it’s very hard to think for us coming out to have a clear sense of what we dream to be because we were never allowed the dream that’s the but I think that if you just put yourself out there and start doing new things the new opportunities arise and those might spark some dreams thing else over time do one thing I want to damaged enough kind of mentioned it already is I want to be up to help others I just don’t know what form that’s going to take I do want to become more than activists I do want to shout from the rooftops that what watchtower does is wrong and it needs to change I’m not an activist today want to shut them all down because I think that that is imposing on the human rights of others if they want to believe all is that that’s the choice they free to believe what they want the way those beliefs and impose on other people’s human rights that is wrong and that needs to change what my role is in that yet I don’t know but I do know of one had a part of it so justI’mkeepingmyoptionsopenandI’mjustlookingforwaysthatIcanbeavoicesomewayIjustdon’tknowwhatformatscantakeitthat’sbeautifulandIthinkthatweshouldsendthisoutbyaskingBeverlyaquestionsoBeverlywhatisitthat’sourhowdoyoufeelaboutSherryleavingthecallsandSashahowdoyoufeelaboutthembeingoutofthecallandwhatyouhopeforthemyouaregoingforwardasfarasI’mconcernednowtheleadingleavingalotthatshouldbegettingallthetimeIgetintoalotofdramatraumathattheycomingoutverynicelyortheyarewakingwakingwakingupwakingupandI’msohappyanyplaceanddownI’msuremymotherwouldhavebeenmorethanhappyandalsomyhusbandhadbeenthrilledbecauseonedayatworktellingwhatisfunnystorytofinishonsitemyunclewasaveryintelligentmanreallyintendintelligentasanengineerverycreativecoulddesignthingshewasanatheistnotonethatyoucouldreallytalkaboutreligioustopicswehadnotimeforreligionatallbuthewasrespectfulsorryitwasoneparticulardayIwaslookingverypale&womenonceamonthcanbeinclinedtolookatandthisdidn’tgounnoticedbyuncleRayhetookonelookatmeaningwhenSherrylookverypaleyouneedabloodtransfusionandthenchestisthewayit’sgoingtoMatthewrealizewhathesaidandtowhomhehadsaiditandthislookofhorrorwentovertheeffectsandheranoutofthatroomhadthoughtsthatIthinkthatifIwastoseehimnowandtellhimheyuncleRayIgotnoproblemwithabloodtransfusionnowisnoissuewithsavingmylifebyamedicalprocedureifthedoctorsdeemitnecessaryIwouldlovetohavebeeneverhadthatconversationwithhimandmanyothersaboutcreationandevolutionhewastherehewasawonderfulmanIthat’sabeautifulwaythentheauditonthatnoteandappreciatetogetherenoughyou’rewelcomeIwanttothankbothSherryandBeverlyforbeingsoopenabouttheirlivesandallthattheywentthroughyouknowit’sit’sreallyinterestingtoforgettohaveBeverlypresentfortheinterviewbecauseyouaswetalkedaboutthiswholecoltexperiencesreachesfarbeyondjustthoseofuswhoweredirectlyexposedtoitallyouknowwehadpeoplethatcaredaboutusthathadtositbackandwatchallthisgodownandtheywereimpactedtosomywifeJennyandIwehadsuchagreattimewiththosetwoitwasjustanawesomeexperiencetoactuallyjusttohavethemagreetotaketimeoutofthisamazingtripthattheywereontovisitustheothergoingtoplaceslikeNewYorkCityandNiagaraFallsandbeautifulskislopesinColoradoandSanFranciscotoHawaiiandthentheystoppedintheLouisvilleKentuckyareatoseesooneofthesethingsisnotliketheothersthoseisreallycoolthattheytheymaytimesatthecomeseeusandthenweactuallygottodothisinterviewandjustasanasideyoujustsayingforsomeofyouslackerssaythatyouwanttobeinterviewbutIdon’tseeyoumakingthetriphereenoughyouwanttogetonandwanttogetfast-trackflyingthousandsofmilestomydoormightbeonewaytogetontheshowyouunderstandsoI’lljustkeepthatinmindifyouactuallyliketosendamessageofsupporttoSherryorBeverlyareyouoneorbothofthemyoucandosobygoingtoSeanpodcast.comwhereyoucanleaveacommentforthemyoucanalsofindtheresourcesthatwerementionedintheepisodetherethevideoforthesongthatshechosetorepresentherjourneySherryactuallychosethesongbackdownbyBobMosestorepresentherjourneyofthesongtalksaboutmakingastandforabrighterfuturenevergoingbackandIthinkthat’ssomethingallofuscanfindourselvesrelatingtoonthesideofthecultthat’snottheonlyplacethatyoucancommentontheepisodewealsohaveaFacebookgroupcalledJeanpodcastwherewehavepeoplediscussingepisodesintheirownlivesandItrytodothingstoencouragememberstofindgoodthingsinlifeandthegrowthasIstatedearlierIwasgoingtogiveyousomehighlightsofthepastfewweeksandgiveyousomeideawhat’sgoingonintheireveryWednesdaywepostthingsthatwerehappyaboutinlifethisweekeveryweekandwepostthingsthatweredoingforourselvesaspartofself-caresomethingthatwewereneverreallytalkedtodoaswitnessesorinanyofthesecultsthatwedealwithhimatourfirstshowuntilSundaywherepeoplepostthepicturesandtalkedaboutsomeofthethingsthattheyhadthatwerecoolerthanmeantsomethingtothemyouknowbeingshunnedwedon’twillhavepeoplewithusanymorethatmaybeweusedtosharethatcoolgadgetwegotwithorthatsentimentalitemnumberyourmaterialthingswhilenotbeingmaterialisticmaterialthingsdohavemeaningtousandinthemalotoftimesthat’swhywewefindthesethingsthatrepresentsomethingaboutusandwithnoweusedtomaybesharethosethingswithourfamiliesandwecan’tanymoresoitalltakenoutalittletimethatyouhearandtherewillsharesomeofthosethingsinthegroupandkindofyougettoknoweachotherthroughthethismonthwe’vehadaleastonepersondisassociateleavethecultbehindandthatisawesomewealsocelebratedChristmastogetherandNewYear’ssothingsarehappeningintheirmygoalstokeepmoreaboutusasindividualsinourstoriesandsupportingeachotherpersonallythanjustyourkeepingupwiththelatestdateofstuffandsoIalsotoldyouthatIhadspecialaudiofromthegroupthatsharesomeeggwhensurethatnowoneofthemembershadawhatisdefinitelyatleastoneofthebestifnotthebestfirstChristmasstoryI’veeverheardyoupostedandinthegroupsoIhadhimuseanewfeaturemywebsitewhichI’lltellyouaboutgiveyouachancetouseaftertheaudiosothathecouldsellhisstoryinhisownvoicesohereyougothisisNico’sfirstChristmasmynameisNicoandIamcurrentlyshunnedasanextrahosewitnessandthisisthestoryofmyveryfirstChristmasIwasalittlebitreluctanttogotoaChristmaspartybutonceIrealizedthatthereluctancewasjustalittlebitofJehovah’sWitnessleftinmeIdecidedtojustgoforbarrenmindIhaven’tcelebratedChristmassinceIwasveryverymyfamilyspendthecallsinceIwasaboutsevensobasicallythisismyfirstChristmaswhenIgottothepartyeveryonegreetedmewithhugsandsaidhowhappytheywerethatIgottoshareChristmaswiththemandsomeofthemknewmypreviousreligiousbackgroundsotheywereevenmoreexcitedtoseemethepartywasjustamazingnothingflashyorover-the-topjustgoodfoodgooddrinksandevenbetterpeopletheicingonthecakewasaround5:30PMoneofthemothersofthechildrencameuptomeandaskedmeifIwouldliketobeSantaClaustopresentgiftstoallthelittlekidswhostillthinksthatIsraelkeepinmindinHawaiiwedon’treallyhaveaSantaClausmeetandgreetatthelocalmalllikeonthemainlandapparentlySanta’sreindeerdon’tfancysandandsunbutitwasanawesomefirstexperiencewhenIwasaloneIgotintomycostumeandnoonesawmethenallthekidssingasongtosomeincentivesotospeakasIwalkedinthedoorwithmybigfakejellybellyandmysackfullofpresenceandshakingjinglebellsthankgoodnessIhadafigbeerbecauseIwasjustsmilinglikeandoverjoyedforisarecenttomysackandcallthekidsnameIcouldseetheanticipationbuildingandtheotherkidswhowereeagertoheartheearningscallnextastheycametocollectthegiftstheysatwithmeandtookapicturewithSantaitwastrulyamazingthenextthingthathappenedreallycaughtmeoffguardandalmostreducedmetotearsandI’mnotaveryemotionalpersonatleastnotontheoutsideafterSantahadleftandIhadreturnedtheadultsstartedhandingoutpresenttoeachotherknowthisismyfamilyinfactIhavezerofamilymembersinHawaiiwithmesoIwasn’treallyexpectinganythingIjustthoughtI’dgotheremeetpeopleeatanddrinkandenjoythisholidayspiriteveryoneseemstobesofondofthenthegirloryoungwomanIshouldsaywhodressedupasentencehelpertohelpmewiththenamesofkidsIdidn’tknowcameuptomeandhandedmeawrappedpresentIdidn’tevenknowwhattosayIstruggletomusterupthewordsthankyouasthiswastotallyunexpectedtherewereonlyabout30peoplethereattheChristmaspartyandI’llknewBrianwhoinvitedmeinwhomIworkwithaswellashismomanddadasIsatbackandgatheredmyselfemotionallyIbegantoreflectonwhatwasactuallyhappeningthesetotalandcompletestrangersshowedsomuchloveandkindnesstoaguythatmorethan90%hadneverknownpriortoyesterdayIwasjusttotallydumbfoundedthattheseworldlypeopleIwastaughtweresobadshowedmemorelovethananyJehovah’sWitnessI’veevermetitwasthenthatIrealizedImadetherightcallbyleavingthecallbehindforgoodofcourseitstillhurtsthatIcouldn’tcelebratewithmyfleshlyfamilybutcelebratingwithmycoworkersfamilyandbyextensionallofyouIhavelearnedwhattrueloveandthejoyoftheHolySpiritistothankyouallforbeingawesomeandthankyouMikeforcreatingthisgroupwehaveasixplacetogrowandshareexperienceshopeyouallhadaMerryChristmasandevenbetteryearIjustwanttogiveashoutouttomycousinRhiannamyfriendReneeandmymomCoreywhohelpedmethroughthewholeawakeningprocessandJustinsupersupportiveandIknowwillbelisteningtothispodcastsospecialthanksthemandofcoursetoyouaswellforfeaturingthisonthepodcasttakecarethatstoryamazingtheirpeoplearetrulygoodnotallpeopleobviouslybutifyouputyourselfoutthereyoutoocanhavesomeamazingexperiencessohowisNicoabletotellthestorywhileIhaveanewFuturamawebsiteSeanpodcast.comwhereyoucanclickontherightsideofthepageIthinkanyofthepagesactuallyonthesiteandleavemeavoicemailthatIcanthendownloadanduseonthepodcasttherecordstraightforthemicrophoneonwhateverdeviceyou’reusingweatheredyourphoneyourlaptopcomputerwhateverwhereveryouhaveamicrophoneandyoucouldeventestitfirsttoseehowitsoundsmakesureitsoundsgoodsoI’mgoingtobeaskingsomequestionsinfutureepisodesthatmightproduceanswersthatarguesonthepodcastepisodesinfactIhaveaquestionrightnowwehaveanewyearuponus2019outI’dliketoknowwhatwouldyouliketoseeimproveinyourlifethisyeartheycouldbecaughtrelatedcultfalloutrelatedjustpersonalstuffwhateveryoucanletmeknowyournameifyouwantitusedorjusttellmewhatyou’restrugglingwiththemlifeandwhereyou’dliketoseeimprovementI’llcompilethemandmayusetheminanepisodetohelpothersseethattheyarealoneinsomeofthestruggleswe’veallbeenthroughalotwerealljustpeoplesoyourstruggleswillbefeltbyothersintheknowthatthey’renotalonesogotoSeanpodcast.comclickonthetimeofthetabontherightandletmeknowwhattroublesyou’rehavinggoingintonet2019awaredoyouneedhelpifyouhaven’tbeentothesitelatelyyoualsoseethatIevenhavesomeshunswaguptherenowIhavemergedthisbuddyformetobytheofyouIneverthoughtthatyou’rethebikeasagirllikethisandtheotherpeoplewanttosupportlikethisbutIsourcedsomeniceT-shirtsandaandahoodiewithashuntlogoonthemthatlookreallycoolIactuallywentaheadandandthetrialorderaboutthesethingsmyselfsothatIcouldtrythemwaytomakesurethoughtheyweregood-qualityandthattheylookprettycoolsoifyou’reinterestedthisisonewayofsupportingtheshowyougetaprettycoolcharterhoodieoutofitandIhaveideasforsomeotherthatallI’llputupwithasIgettimeyoucanalsofindthepodcastonYouTubeunderthechannelcallSeanpodcastonewordonisthegrandmashownpodcastonewordandontwittersomehowpodcastagainonewordifyou’dliketohearmystoryandgreatinsightintohowthecultofJehovah’sWitnessesworksyoucandosoatthepodcastcalledthisJWlifealsofoundthisJWlife.comnowwehadn’thadanynewpatriarchsupportersforafewmonthsbutthismustpeoplereallysteppeduptotheplateandIwanttobesuretothankthemallbynamefirstnamesonlyofcourseIdon’tknoweverybodysituationssoIwanttothankMariaBobbyJoeJosephEllenKathyandDianaforsteppinguptheisthemostsupportIreceivedinaone-monthspinsoyoumaybeofsomeofitwasbeforemylatestwebcastwhereIexplainedsomeofthebigthingsI’mworkingonfortheshowfromaFacebookgroupforthenonprofitthatIamatleasttalkingaboutstartingandLLandyouaredoingsomepreliminaryworkonandthecoachingandsupportgroupsthatIwanttostartsoyoumaybesomeofthatwasthatwasbeforeImadethatannouncementmaybesomeofitwasaftertheannouncementhaveinpeoplewereinspiredtocontributethenbutIjustreallywanttotakethetimetothankeverybodythatthatreallyhelpsmemaketheshowpossiblebysupportingitfinanciallyit’snotjusttheshowyoutheshowtakesalotofworkalotoftimetherecostsinvolvedingettingthingsdonebutalsoIspentagreatdealoftimehelpingpeoplethroughemailstomyFacebookgroupthereothersocialmediatargetpeoplewhoareaskingmequestionspeoplewhoknewmytimeandIenjoyhelpinghimbutatyourhavingthesupportallowsmetohelpevenmoreit’sallowedmetotakemoretimeandasyouknowfromthatvidcastI’veactuallyArtiesteppedsomestepbackfromsomycleaningworksothatIcanmakemoretimeforsomeofthesethingssoyoursupporthelpsmebeabletodothisandIcan’tthankyouenoughbecauseyou’renotonlyallowingmetohelpotherpeoplebutyourallowingmetodosomethingthatIlovethatthatI’mreallyenjoyingdoingaudiosummeditittakesformetoemotionallyandmentallyattimesbutintheendit’ssoencouragingtoseepeoplethatwanttosupportwhatI’mdoinghereandandtoseepeoplegethelpsoifyouwanttocontributeinthatwayyoucandoso@patriotic.com/shunned and the you for as little as a dollar a month it really is encouraging to me and helps me to do more of this another great way to support both the shunned podcast and this GW life if you’re so inclined it doesn’t cost a penny just head over to iTunes leave a five-star review that helps both podcast to get found in the search is on there so that more people can find it now next month I’m pretty excited about this one as well we’ve got a really cool story is a former member of Jehovah’s Witnesses name Silvers and just a really unique aspects of his story homeless at 13 married at 16 everything from the blood issue to physical and sexual abuse Silvers experienced the whole awful buffet of cult toxicity but he’s here to tell a story which is a huge step in and of itself it takes a a lot for somebody to do that I’m not to spoil it all here but this guy has been through so much and I even have a really really heartfelt and amazing update of sorts that I’ll share after the interview that this just really beautiful so I work in a Glenn close this episode out with the song know how yet but fair voyeur you can find a link to her song to the patriot on page to the show to resources that were mentioned in more not just on the website but if you’re listening on a podcast up you can probably get it all and out by looking at the description says we in all episodes love others do no harm and go be happy and