Episode Twenty Four – Silvers is shunned by Jehovah’s Witnesses

Welcome to the shunned podcast where we expose religions that you shunning as a tool to control people today we have another former member of Jehovah’s Witnesses named Silvers and there’s some really unique aspects of his story home was a 13 married at 16 everything from the blood issue to physical and sexual abuse Silvers experience that all and not only did he experience so much but he still here standing to tell a story and just him being able and willing to stand up and to tell the story is a huge step in and of itself I’m not gonna spoil it all here but he has been through a lot I even have an update of sorts that I’m in a share after the interview that I think is really cool and if you stick around after the interview you can also hear how the podcast is doing what the next episode is about and we give you some highlights from the sun podcast Facebook group so let’s go ahead and meet Silvers let’s get to know him a little bit and his story my name is Silvers I’m 42 years old I was a Jehovah’s Witness and I’m shot I Silvers and how did you become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the first place well I was kind of born and my grandmother and started studying from what I understand with the witnesses and kind of brought my biological mother and father in and so that kind day that’s how let’s talk and it started with the family gotcha so you said that your was her maternal grandmother you say my maternal grandmother and she brought in both your mom which obviously kinda make sense but she also brought your dad in think my my dad was on the sake I think my dad felt it was bull crap from the beginning and just get anything because he loved my mom a lot… At that time and my grandmother also brought in the majority of the rest of the family on my moms side which would mean her sisters and her mother is in cousins and I just counted the ripple effect within a short period of time a lot of the women in the on the my mom said the family had been married five or six times each so I felt like they probably struggled a little a lot and was probably an easy target nor you yeah they’ve got that vulnerability there they’ve had some issues in their life and their they’re looking for something obviously so sound like your grandma was was kind of patient zero like you know she, got this whole thing started in the family so when you so you are then kind of born in so I assume that it was all you ever knew is that correct not not completely all I ever knew okay there is kind of a more than kind of there is a big black when I was born over the blood issue by my biological mother were strange to now so that’s why say biological she when she went into labor and she needed she was losing so much blood she needed a blood transfusion and the family wasn’t having it so they were in rush her to a hospital and dead two hours away from the original hospital the doctor said he would not do anything with or without a blood transfusion on the way to the next hospital she died and they cut me out into the cesarean and got me out and she was in a coma for three days so during that time my great and really this is my great aunt really wanted me I think my dad bought really hard for her to get a blood transfusion but was up against too many to many other people in the family so that’s, how I was introduced at eight in the for the next four years I would live with my biological mother and father/some pretty good what I can remember a pretty good memories of them and they were not there, teetering I think just to pacify mom my grandmother I teetering and going you know going to the kingdom all and and tell it fell apart okay so wow that’s quite a start to a story is quite a start to a life so you were the blood issue you know touched you very early and I noticed that you said that your great aunt once and you wish you she was was she pursuing custody in some way like white what may be why your mom was in a coma you know I don’t know the complete details of that particular moment although I do know that she has confessed and there’s been any other confessions but one was that she was very jealous of my mother because she was unable my great aunt was unable to have children and maybe she felt like having a child would make her life complete and she did wish you death upon my mother and this was a Jehovah’s Witness that was and in and I just find it so horrid you know that she would wish death upon my mother said she would be able to get me since she had been having this in the forefront of her mind for the longest time and and actually she took care of me for the first two weeks when I got out of the hospital with my biological mother was still in the hospital recovering and she has flat out told me she just wish her dad so she could keep me so this was that this was her cry looking for any opportunity for that scenario to play out it would take four years and it finally did for her all right wow that’s that’s a lot of dysfunction to be brought into into the world into because sure why I left that’s heavy so how do you so you mean you’ve already said that your biological parents you, let us they had you feel something happen I guess of that for your mark so what what transpired what happened that changed it at that for your mark I don’t really know I don’t really get a clear picture I don’t think I’ve ever complete clear picture from the Jehovah’s Witness side just because they would like to paint it something different I’ve had to do a lot of digging and what I do know is that my great aunt sister did try to get custody of me are temporary custody while my mom straightened herself out which I think she got on a little bit of drugs a course for witnesses that could amend she smoked a cigarette art smoke pot had and one time right and sees the opportunity and I know that my great and she did and it I getting me for quite a few years had a very big argument with her Jehovah’s Witness sister is saying that if you don’t let me have him I’ll never speak to you again so to keep the peace. She lacks her sister migrate at take over take me over legal conservatorship which at that is what I found out later I didn’t a lot of this came unraveled much later came to me in bits and pieces and have asked questions over the years and I was able to use the puzzle together and then just flat out confessions once I I had directly confronted them with paperwork and Peru that your human being not a piece of property for people to fight over that’s that’s the that’s really it I don’t even know I just I’m sorry man that this is a really rough really rough way to start life what happened then with your parents a means to get legal conservatorship or something there would have to be a legal issue that always is not like or maybe I’m wrong and somehow they worked it out but is not like Jehovah’s Witnesses could just have like a judicial committee and somehow take away your parents ability to be parents you this is a this would be a legal issue so your parents once you went to live with your great aunt what happened said that a money that they just give up the rights to you or was there some sort of fight your biological parents all my biological parents from what I understand what I’ve been told that my father went to jail and my mother dropped me off at my in her her mom’s house for my grandmother’s house and during that to be gone for a few days and during that few days is when they decided to take the opportunity and say that she abandoned me and then file for legal conservatorship of me which was only supposed to be temporary and I was told that I was it was something a little bit stronger than legal conservatorship and that based on was adopted by my great aunt wow that’s that so there’s a lot of moving pieces there and it’s right kind of interesting to see all of that happening within Jehovah’s Witnesses to have so many people trying to I don’t know if maybe they felt they were trying to get you like you said with your great aunt maybe maybe she was looking to fulfill some part of herself or maybe she thought she could save you in some way you know being that she could introduce you to quote the truth and in get you to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses yourself but to I believe that definitely the case I also believe in it that she even based on what she said so it is that she couldn’t have children and she didn’t want me really bad and I felt like I I do like she really felt like she’d be more complete and the my great aunt married within a few months of getting a legal conservatorship of me to a worldly in the truth world like a worldly man who was a cop so I think she hadn’t really thought out pretty well you know if she’s married to a cob even though he’s worldly shall have financial security with this new son boat” right and she guess she is prepared to deal with a little backlash from the corrugation if that meant having a husband and a child and then she could bring up the perfect child basically what she thought all of her dream would come true and maybe she can bring her husband in which she had tried her whole life to be yeah a lot of people try that so then you were raised as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses by essentially your great aunts from the time basically that you could really have much knowledge of what is going on you or the baby anymore right or toddler so then what was the the worldview that you are given by the witnesses by your great aunt.how did they have you see the world around you well first off they isolated my parents for me though that the deal was that that my parents could have gotten me at any point I had they dish under the court a little initiative but it was greatly blocked by my grandmother and especially my great aunt that was raising me making them think that they didn’t have any rights whatsoever and change your number my parents couldn’t find me for a while and so I was viewed to see the world was that people work evil Satan was out to specifically target me and my mom was evil my dad was evil so of course I didn’t match with any memories I had of them and but over time it’s not being told their evil there are understandings and plans are there satanic for their demonic then of course that started to to infiltrate my mind where I started to believe that that was true and everyone in it that I had interaction with that was that inside be true or do you know does when the organization of work to be viewed the same way but definitely I would definitely save my parents seem to be my biological parents seem to be the most demons even more than worldly people are you will that work Jehovah’s Witnesses like I can I can understand them doing that and why they did that right that’s it’s quite manipulative it sounds like they played a lot of games to keep your parents your biological parents away from you so yet so then what was your childhood it like growing up at home this this home with your great aunt what was what was life like them very isolated very controlling it was very physically violent and there were sexual abuse sexual grooming from my grandmother’s husband so my grandfather was a ministerial servant and that grooming started almost immediately when I got with my aunt got me at about 4 1/2 so and having a one parental figure my great aunt that was not that was in the Joe’s witness organization and then have any other father figure has been that was no I in him being a police officer there just there was a lot of violence between those guys that she was very much a yeller and screamer and so is he in their it would just get pretty violent and he was above the log as he was a policeman then and there is just a lot of things I can never talk about anyone boat and the congregation and even outside the congregation just regular people because sent to the police but it would be hard for you know me to be believed on either side are even be taken seriously I I can see you you really between a rock and a hard place there she did you know and she really liked her weekends to herself so I would go visit my grandmother and energizing ministerial servant and I just remember you know from a small age at little little bitty things added up over a period of you know seven years or so that would end up happening that I wasn’t realizing that I was being groomed yeah me nobody ever is that back I really didn’t realize I was being grew until I was I sought therapy in my late 20s early 30s sure you the minutes of the manipulations very hard to see heck we were all manipulated just being in a cult right and I did wake up from that allows about 38 years old so you know we it’s very hard to see what people were very skilled at manipulating other people are doing in the moments and then even years later how did things go for you so soundly home life wasn’t wasn’t very good which might be saying it too nicely how was school you know when you you did at least have that time to maybe get away from the situation at home when you went to school what was that like you as a young witness was made fun of a lot in school and bullied a lot I do I did have a couple of incidences which helped out like you know might migrate it was that a violent person and so is my husband and I do remember one specific incident where I was being had a smart mouth in class immune being repressed on all sides there had to be some sort of outlet where I could express to being negatively or not so’s I had kind of a mixed bag at school so one incident that got me send to the principals office and this was back in the time period were teachers themselves could go in and I’m not sure if they do that now but teachers can go in and spank their their student and Argabright bent over to get a spanking and error bruises all up and down my back and she didn’t give me a spanking instead set me down is probably about seven and and she sat me down and asking where the bruises came from and immediately I made up a lie which was kind of interesting that I would just on the fly at seven make up that live and she said that that you know the that she merely recognize the lie and called CPS which then they got a hold of my great aunt which was such an embarrassment to her and I really got it when I got home other things that happened in school is just being bullied by some of the even Jehovah’s Witness kids in the corrugation and went to the same school as me and this get you this kind of an oddball and kind of let my I guess the pressure cooker effect came out in school you know I I didn’t I be discounted acted out a lot finally I did stand up for myself towards the beginning of high school and I had pretty much had enough of the abuse I coming seemingly coming from every direction and so when some of the hotshot bullies in school I finally approach to me I had enough and I got into a lot of fights and with their butts and then, towards the end of my school became popular because I wouldn’t take any crap and also is pretty comical about it that was my way and hope it your Leica you the yoke a lot a lot of people when they have a lot of bad things in her life they turn to comity essentially to to be in the funny guy and this is kind of interesting to see you as the fighter and the funny guy at the same time that that’s an interesting outlet for all of that I have guts, kinda great that at least you were able to kind of take back your life a little bit in that in that one small way even in school so how was it at the Kingdom Hall them for you at your growing up it sounds like you said that even the kids he went to school with you from the same corrugation were bowling you at school though it doesn’t doesn’t bode well for the kingdom hall but you how was how is life for you there it was a little lonely and I was an only child so and I will say that on the spectrum is there to me up like there is a spectrum inside of Joe’s witness organization where the are families that are a lot more lax and lenient towards her children and others and I I was on the spectrum of just being abused quite a bit being covered up so because of that I I felt isolated I acted isolated what I did do that I studied very hard to be able to get the best comments I possibly could so I could at least if nothing else be”” spiritually strong and and that’s really come out played out for me and in the kingdom hall just people were more standoffish and did make fun of me to hurt my feelings quite a bit but I just really try to stay focused on being like the fastest one that can look up a Scripture and the you know that just that I did what I could take them to survive that situation and in my great aunt was not very keen on since she had a worldly husband she was already kind of marked soda and you in the corrugation is kind of keep your distance sort of from her you know from her so that kinda bled down to me as well that but Scott felt was so did you at least you’re trying to be the best witness you could be as far as the “like you said spiritually strong and giving good comments or maybe talks or whatever did you at least get maybe some praise for that was that at least maybe a little oasis in the desert for you enough for a time it was at definitely giving talks was and trying to be be the most spiritually strong person I could be was something I clung on to you and being able to hear if I can do did a good job doing a talk in was the kind of you know that the my outlet I suppose her my focus focus during that time. Zero just thinking you can see how sometimes you have kids and in a kingdom hall that that don’t have a lot going for them even in their own family here or at school there a lot of kids that go through a lot of different types of abuse in the kingdom all and you can kinda see how just that set up then there try these kids are trying to find something good in their life something to be praised for something that people will like them for so they go to the kingdom hall to run and and naturally you’re going to do what you can to get that praise state to get whatever and you and you watch these kids almost in their own way being pushed and manipulated it even though maybe nobody’s even trying to the kid is naturally gonna gravitate toward where he can get some positive reaction so if that positive reaction can calm from being the best little date of in the kingdom hall and getting baptized and giving the perfect talks in and looking the pardon and playing that role then of course any kids going to do that and and of course you we all know their repercussions later if you decide to go back once you’ve been baptized you you’ve already committed yourself but you can see why kids do that in a congregation why they they try to stand out and so often it’s just because they don’t have anything else going for them and they want to to get praise and validation and that’s one way in one place were maybe they can finally get it by playing a role essentially right right so for yourself you’re kind of playing that role a little bit at least at times getting some of this praise as you’re going into your teenage years young adulthood how did things progress you not only I don’t know if there were any life changes that that occurred during them but also you know within the congregation that you get baptized into two anything that was notable in your life as things were as you are transitioning as you are growing as a young human being sure I have I did get privileges in the corrugation are doing the Mike send which is you know that’s a big huge deal of being able to walk with the microphone to hand of someone to make a comment see a baptism I got baptized that surround 11 to 12-ish is pretty and really the reason I I really felt like I wasn’t ready but I wanted to be more accepted in the corrugation and I had befriended and elders son and he was getting he was the only one in his family getting baptized at that convention and and I started ask him a lot of questions and he taught he basically told me how to answer all the questions and make sure I get baptized you were sitting in front of the elders answering the question then making sure that I remembered everything he told me to say that I just wanted to get baptized in public if I got baptized maybe the abuse with an that I would be seen in a different light that maybe God over would approve of me even more and that it would be the catalyst to help what I was holding annual do you know the abuse and when is the abuse I mean there were many not only with the physical and sexual but it was a really interesting dynamic of if I made anything less than a be at school I would have to sit on the edge of my bed or six months at a time so when I got home I would sit on the edge of my bed until it was dinner time is allowed one bathroom break and then I was allowed to take my my bath and then go to bed for six months at a time until the next report card weight like that was her whole life that would get home from school sit on the edge of your bed one bathroom break dinner bad that’s it like for six minus that’s correct until the next report card time and then if I made anything less than a be it would be another six weeks until the next report card said the same scenarios there are literally years that I sat on the edge of my bed and into strange punishments that it is a very strange punishment and that up that was my grade at you know that was her trying to well I would say more LOL honestly I would say that at and some levels a lot of levels life was it didn’t turn out like she expected you and you took it out on you right so to, get me more out of the equation so she can have some free time then basically you have me sit on the bed and be quiet so she didn’t have to deal with a child would like to meet the no Wi-Fi for you and why do all of this if she doesn’t want you want if she wants her weekends free so she ships you off to your grandparents and your as you said your ministerial servant grandmothers husband you know was sexually abusing you and at home she’s abusing you I don’t I see this happen I know it happens a lot I know a lot of kids are fostered or even adopted like I think you said that you might’ve actually been legally and then these people they get these kids and they just abuse them and I don’t get it I don’t know if it’s just an outlet for them or what but is the most horrific thing and it really kind of pisses me off and I’ve I’m so sorry that you had to go through that because it here you have somebody who says that she wants you so badly and then a signal she’s sending is anything but that and she’s trying to control you and make you what she wants you to be it’s all about her it’s not about you and I’m back is this is just stupid fucking it just blows my mind I’m sorry man that’s that’s such a awful thing yet what it so I don’t know if this question is too much let me know but so your kid you’re sitting on your bed on the edge of your bed for six months at a time what do you two do you just escape Mensa leads you make up scenarios have an imagination how do you you escape that prison essentially that you’ve been put in good question and you know I think I disassociated a lot in my mind I just remember it being extremely boring and there is a lot of crying of course I couldn’t couldn’t allow that to be seen or I would get in trouble so I think I just kinda blanked out and quite honestly that bed did they did affect my adult life coming sometimes I do find myself and especially when it did start getting therapy I do find myself did find myself sitting ironically on the edge of my bed discounted staring off into the distance with maybe empty thoughts and once I figured out that oh my gosh this is I did this so much as a child I’m just so used to when you just gonna sitting here and staring off into nothing and of being numb then I you know I began some real work this as life progress that’s what I’ve realized Galliano that makes sense I yeah you they put prisoners in prison and ice in isolation they put them in solitary confinement and it’s a very difficult thing for people and I I understand that you you still maybe had school to go to her meetings or whatever systolic you are completely isolated but right but we love that stuff torture you are also a child that’s that’s horrific and how anybody can can rationalize that it is in their mind as it is beyond me so it really think and I appreciate you answering that because it is your dissociation makes sense if you’re going to dissociate from what’s happening in and we ought them the brain has its own mechanisms of escape if we aren’t able to come up with ones so and and I take it the dissociation that was probably a part of a lot of your life just because these horrible things are happening that’s an unnatural thing that human beings do so you got baptized at 11 you’re going to your teenage years you are doing is how the other comes I guess appoints when every everyone reaches that point where they start to maybe drive ads for whatever age you could get a license where you you lived or there’s the point that where people graduate high school and have choices to make or become 18 and the legal adult so do things begin to change for you as you got older a little bit that absolutely had the age of 12 I finally had enough of the sexual abuse the physical abuse not only that watching it at the age of 12 I was still mentally even though I’m I there is a large part of me that believed that maybe what my great aunt was doing and how she was treating me and some level was directed from God because that’s what I was trained to believe you but as I guess I just couldn’t take it anymore I watching my great uncle beat her into a pole many times in her having bruises on her and I can clean up is that it can take the sexual abuse anymore so that came out and of course I was called every name in the book by my great aunt that had a judicial can committee meet with me and at the all kinds of questions and I’ve got my privileges taken away because I didn’t scream united and yell you got your privileges taken away because you didn’t scream over the sexual abuse right and who would urge you I mean that exactly okay make sense you know that I think this was a common jade Jehovah’s Witness thing that you if you woman it is getting regular phones getting raped you are to bite with everything you guy and if you don’t say no and by regardless of the situation even if fighting mitts on blowing your head off then you’re basically consenting or even if you are a little kid that was groomed and Anne’s had no voice in were up against all odds it says that the stupidest thing is I think I take it from the Bible of which says little something but it’s the it’s just crazy that they would put this on a child and say what you didn’t scream and therefore we’re going to punish you at Mina takes victim blaming to a whole new level upon the victim story to have your privileges taken away which is my only thing I had going for me I felt yeah with Paul on the silvers here right to have it taken away from you just absolutely devastated so that was the the kickoff basically of me standing up masala put up with another six months and I remember having dinner and this is what changed it all in my life started to change for better and worse so I we were having dinner and and I guess that my great uncle is a pretty violent person and beat my great aunt alive in turn she was kind of violent towards me and beat me a lot but anyway he can the typical dinner if he was grumpy which is often would be he would unify gag anything like kids to about having canned carrots or something like that I would get back handed and told to eat it with you know with the approval of my great aunt maybe not with the approval I’m not really sure she was pretty scared of him too but she’s also really mouthy and stood up herself a lot which also caused her to get beat and me to get beat anyway I had just really had enough and he went to back handed me a gag on something and I what he would normally do is flip the whole entire dining room table over and is reasonable yeah that’s the real you can say no I remember he went to backhand me and I stood up and at this point I’m a tall guy and by 12 years old I was already over 6 foot tall so I remember I stood up and I told him to go ahead and do it and if he did it that he better make sure he kills me because I was going to kill him ultimately one of the guns employees at all and then I pointed to my great aunt less than if you touch her again while I’m living here I will I will also kill you said you will never abuse me again and you will never be sorry again this is just me standing up at 12 that’s been the big deal 12 it was a big deal of it the look on his face I’ve never seen that type of luck before especially from him and his eyes were just huge because he knew I meant it and I did mean it at that time had nothing to lose I had it I felt like I didn’t have anything to lose in I looked at my great aunt to just a brief glance and there is sort of a beaning from her like someone stood up for her but I really couldn’t let that sink in exhausted busy just trying to stand up against injustice that I felt was happening all around me and it home and so then I went to my bedroom and within a couple of weeks a another family took me under their wing briefly and when they did they were so nice and so lenient in a lot of ways I was such a loaded spring that I only lasted about eight months there and before I ran away just because there is the aberrant way 13 from them but they were I will say there were Jehovah’s Witnesses as well dated approve of the abuse to that extent and when I ran away from them is when we were hanging also was about 13 we were hanging out with some of their friends and they had some little girls that were probably about eight or nine and I remember that Jehovah’s Witness sister leaning over to her other Jehovah’s Witness friend saying we need to make sure to keep them away from the little girls because I heard that he had been molested and to hear that it 13 after I I feel so strongly about the article so strongly against pedophilia that it made it you’ll like they were putting me in that category before way before anything could even happen are judging me because I it was just another judgment so can I so you are punished for not screaming correct that’s correct what is your abuser your grandfather was he punished him he was punished and he got reinstated really fast yet they took this then at the time to try and understand so either he confessed or they took this at the evidence of just one person or he had he molested other people at that time and they do not know that RR I did not know that he had molested of the people of and he blamed it on me so I was walking which I find really hilarious and disgusting I do try I do deflect a lot of comity for my my sense of humor sometimes could you take a tragic situation that maybe shouldn’t be laughed at my it into something everyone does funny and I’m anyways that I was walking a little too sexy in front of him coming out of bathroom in my underwear so basically you are asking for it right right or it correct God okay so I what I wanted what I was wondering was you know because you are punished for not screaming I was just thinking it would have been the ultimate irony is that he was not punished because you know if you didn’t scream and he wasn’t punished if he’s not punish the nothing actually happened you know so then how could you be punished for not screaming so I guess he he then must have either admitted it out right or maybe there were other accusations against him that added up to the quote to witnesses that they need in order to to handle it wasn’t ever reported to the police he literally lived with a cop so that is you know this is kind of just coming to me but honestly you know that’s the migrate at the event was never Jehovah’s Witness and he felt like he I remember many arguments with those tears and him telling her that it I would that she was brainwashing me which ironically would turn out to be true you actually have a so the he caught wind of what was going on and CPS got involved that is how the only way CPS got involved and it wasn’t that he wanted CPS to be necessarily involved because he was a cop and then to have someone under his roof having been molested would reflect on him as a police officer in his career though he was trying to protect his career as best he could and it just really all that slipped under the rug you know that Elder said I’m sure that you demonized me for the situation and also had a talk with my aunt about not pursuing it so nothing was really proceed I do remember getting questioned by CPS and nothing really came of it and I guess I was in such shock I didn’t really know I don’t so embarrassed sure about the whole thing humiliated embarrassed at the you know and and just kind of went wood with whatever I was told to do and then it wouldn’t take long before I did standards myself and get out of that situation you literally everyone failed to you are surrounded by all these adults and adults after don’t either they abuse you in and they weren’t when they weren’t abusing you and actually had a chance to do something good they still failed you and this is so horrible the other kids get trapped in that situation and I was you I was asking about your some of that because you’re saying you now that you your you’ve taken a stand for yourself and your 13 it and then you overhear somebody telling somebody else to keep their little girls away from their girls away from you because you had been molested and I was just wondering how and how they how they were to know that they were I told them you told the guy I really wanted to to have an outlet I had to it’s been safe and course there can again and demonize you I felt like I was extremely violated that you know when I heard her tell that to another sis sure then I felt really violated I felt good to a label put on me that I didn’t deserve and I felt like at that point I had actually nothing to lose by living on the street anything would be better than being to deliver those kind of labels that I know wasn’t me and said that’s so I did end up living on the street from the age of little over 13 until about 16 when I got married while okay so let’s talk about then the lot here so let’s talk about them so you’re living on the street at such a young age what was that like it was it was a good on a level for you did it feel good and Justin that you were you were free from the weird controls and the the accusation of false accusations and things like that you’re just a tooth for a fresh start even even on the streets fresh start is a fresh start that did was that good for you on a level or was it just an awful situation I’m in the streets for a kid like that I assume could be just another horrible situation for you well for that time. From the age of 13 the I got married and I’ll be on it was an okay situation I there is a lot of kindness from people I don’t really remember of where I slept a lot but I do know that there is a lot of kindness from strangers I did go to school so I kept that routine down like I continue to get high and I just remember like the lunch room they had a free lunch programs I would load up so I would have dinner and then I met the I started going actually I started attending the kingdom hall again but a different one because I still that I thought that you know despite all of that that was an isolated know I had never heard of anything like that McCurry going in the Carnation individuals when it says so I I really felt like that was isolated I justified you steadied some more you know and put more faith than and the Jehovah’s Witness organization are our Jehovah as they liked the dance it then it didn’t maybe this time around it would be different so it’s an interesting that living on the streets was preferable and better than living among all of these Jehovah’s Witnesses that you had you had been with your whole life I mean that’s just that’s fascinating that they we talk about living on the streets you were the first things you’re talking about is the kindness of strangers and these were the quote worldly people who are supposed to be so awful and treat you so poorly and yet it was better for you on the streets than at home right and at the note raising yet is amazing is that while it says a lot so you end up going to a kingdom hall did you how did that play out amended you end up I understand what you are trying to do trite you know and I understand thinking well you this is just my my isolated kind of crazy family or whatever in and obviously I am not indicting all Jehovah’s Witness families and saying that there like what you grew up in lights when you went to this other congregation did you that you start to see things differently in any way me was it more accepting of you or how are you how are you treated there as this kid kind of coming in off the streets I assume you had a publishers card or whatever that would be sent to this new kingdom hall and also where the hecklers are great aunt and uncle did they not try to get you back or anything know because I am what I found out is that she never had full legal conservatorship of May she had said something lesser than that might either one of my parents could have got me at any time which then made a lot of sense why she kept them kept me away from them and also that both of them lives whenever they would frantically call I remember my especially my my biological mother frantically calling so many times and me being and what if it was me that answered me being told to hang up on her so if you can imagine the mother calling her child frantically and I was told to hang up and then that child hanging up on on her so all the while thinking she didn’t have any rights to me at all whenever she dead it was just a lie that was pushed onto earth for her and my father status screwed over so many people are mean this so how did you deal then so that answers the part about about your your great aunt great uncle not coming after you are pursuing you what about this new kingdom hall this new congregation that your reputation precedes you there or did you fit in there how did that go for you you know I I have a I did come to fit in a little bit I felt there I did remember the elders sons that I had befriended before I got baptized and after they had switched to that creation and had a very large family so I kind of fell a little bit more safe and and are and that I had some outlets people to talk to the people to hang out and now that I was married I got to hang out with the married couples a young married couple okay let’s get to the marriage this is that without that has already happened I didn’t realize that it had been so how did you get married at 16 or whatever they mean I guess you parents had no legal right over you but who did how do you meet somebody was out on the streets was that at the kingdom hall it was through someone I knew at the kingdom hall said hey I think you might like this girl at and we met and we just started dating never had sex before marriage and of that stuff we got married and then of course you know she pregnant and we had started going to the kingdom hall very regularly and actually we got a little apartment two blocks from the King of all so there is really no no excuse or whatever you can’t say the car broke down and I could make it to the kingdom hall she was that she was a female and I just so that out there because the sisters in the car geisha and really helped with a making her feel maybe stay more comfortable at the beginning she was that a witness that the gal I married okay so wait a witness introduce you to this girl but she wasn’t a witness right it was a young yes it was a young witness introduce me to this girl she is going to school at so I get out and abide by that it to me was Ken Obama you know that was such a whirlwind back to whatever it took – are to be accepted and to and now I’m switching over to you know my hormones are still raised 16 I don’t like that’s ever a good time to get married but now it switched over into my own what I perceived as to be the perfect marriage and perfect life you know that sort of a white picket fence scenario maybe not the white picket fence but unit you get my drift know you know I was creating my line you know I now she’s pregnant with the child in the way ends and were going to the kingdom hall and I felt like everything was falling into place for me yes seems like you for the first time you’re feeling some stability and no place to call home right and like you’re starting to fit in the juror did your wife take to the witness culture did how did that go you know baptized as you start studying did she attend meeting she did study quite a bit and we were friends with the local elder and their kids which were about our age but neither one of them were married because they were smart and so we hung out with them a lot and she did say she ever got baptized and honestly I’m not really sure I think she really struggled and whether or not it was the truth and she never really told me until much later I went her opinion gone that were and I really feel like I was so blinded by my own quest for norm abnormality that there is a lot of things I could not see then that I would find out later so then how did things go in your you’ve got this seemingly stable white picket fence situation as you said your in your late teens do you do go to college do you the do you just start working and living life how do things kinda progressed enough to your late teens early 20s in your life because that’s a pivotal point in a lot of people’s lives where some independence is finally reached course you got yours earlier than that even but how do things for how did things progresses as you went forward through through this next chapter of your life will run the age of 19, son would have been near three years older right at three and the fee my I had always wanted United having many friends I got the added this guy from the corrugation became my best friend and I was just so ecstatic to have a really have had a friend I can do things of the friend I can go fishing with he was married young at two and a Jehovah’s Witness girl and they would come over a lot and hang out with us and and I guess it was about 19 oh during 20 that I found that she’s been having an affair with that brother your wife had right oh well though I remember they said they both went to a judicial committee nothing was done and the elders encouraged me to forgive her so I did and then to fast-forward another six months or eight months or so it happened again and again the elders asked me to just forgive her and I’m assuming it was because maybe her now her mother was coming to the kingdom hall though they didn’t want to and she wasn’t baptized a chance of roping in her mother so right over the has to keep forgetting his wife is correct so that the third time it happened United been added in a little while I thought we were over it and the third time it happened on a I mean had a really good job at that .3 figures a year for at a very young age he saw all the you know all the people my age going out having fine but Europe, father responsible work 12 hours a day only to be cheated on you basically my whole entire concept of what I thought a Christian life should be are just even a life of normality was just blown out of the water my mind was blown and I decided that this time I did not want the elders assistance in my decision with my wife that I knew scripturally based on what Jehovah’s Witness taught that I did not have to stay with Arabic without keynote about the first time about the second time it especially 3×3rd strike you out right so I fed her down and told her I wanted a divorce and that would and I didn’t know we separated so what I did I really I honestly felt like I wanted to just explore life at that point and I really did it so haphazardly in so not caring about whether or not I lived or died I couldn’t understand anything to me nothing to match with what was being said in the case congregation and so I did get into some drugs there for a year actually a lot of drugs for about a year on so and then after a year a I did pull myself out of that and then went to college and started studying psychology actually on the kind of always wanting to help other people maybe not go through what I went through a minute within a few semesters I realized that I probably need to help myself a lot more yeah I think at the a lot of people who take psychology degrees are in it to help themselves is as much as they are anyone else your so you studied psychology did you finish the program more I did not I would get United to go back to work to support myself and I pay for the divorce and and that was a big chunk and you know also might my father passed away think maybe maybe need to backtrack just a tiny bit my grandmother had passed away when I was 10 years old so she never got to know about they molestation that her husband that my biological father passed away when I was 22 salads just a year off of drugs going to school working full time and ends that was pretty intense for me so resisted discussing the trauma over trauma trauma is so 22 after he died a kind of just went down for a really long time but for years actually and so you say you went numb was that try to follow timeline was that backend did you know back into drugs and things like that to escape and to numb or were it was a just more of a like a depression or something like that I think more of that I depression and a shot you and you stayed in shock for quite some time I really didn’t it was really hard for or data think and because I did get to know my father before but like if you set will a good 85 years before that we had built a pretty decent I was a really awesome relationship and went fishing and my son and in him and I in talking a lot and about spirituality he was very kind never said a harsh word about anyone he didn’t even say a harsh word about Jehovah’s Witnesses whenever he found out about that he was lied to you just took a deep breath he cried a little bit and he said let’s just move on from here sister really laid-back guy and so losing and losing that kind of my only may be my only support I the collectibility of freefall for so long I didn’t just work and I didn’t do drugs other than I did marijuana and I didn’t drink and I started working at a barge for a drink and probably well below probably I was drinking too much there for a couple of years working at a bar and then something kind of washed over me and and I decided that there are so many dreams are like what did I dream about when I was little and always wanted to live in the mountain so I started making my preparations start following some of those dreams and some moved up to Montana for a while and went to the University of Montana Montana continued on my psychology degree which then journeys yet go greatly and which turned in art and I started working on art my own artwork and then I got into horses artworks and and did a few things maybe my father well my father said he always wanted to do and it would take me about five years before actually decried that he passed away I remember I climbed dismount near the University of Montana and got it to the top which took forever it seemed and just lost it I finally all the tears came flooding down from that so that to get a really nice release and deal with the you start dealing with with the grief over that is that the separate a beautiful moment to be able to and a very unexpected I assume two to to be able to have that moment the top of that mountain to grieve your father I’m so sorry that that you are robbed the relationship with him for so long but I’m I’m glad that you before before the end you did get to to have a relationship with him and to finally get to you to work out some of that stuff and to go fishing and take your kid in and all that that that’s a sound like a beautiful beautiful time in your life I’m I’m sorry that it was as temporary as it was what I’m really glad that you got to have that enemy to it really is something I look back on and I smile at something that I look back on it and reflect on the kind of man he was and try to incorporate that affliction to my being as possible yeah so okay so he passes you go numb for a while you end up you gone to the University of Montana and things like that at any point in this. It is you that you start looking at the doctrine of Jehovah’s Witnesses or did you did you get disfellowshipped and leave or did anything happen therein of that change your I guess your status your relationship with the the cult of Jehovah’s Witnesses yes before I I ventured out to go explore my dreams I did get disfellowshipped and that was during the divorce my ironically cut my wife at the time called the elders and made up a story about me which basically the story was that I was giving alcohol to minors is not true and they disfellowshipped me that I would not meet with them and I could I told that it was a bogus and that we weren’t even living together pending a divorce and they disfellowshipped me without me even meeting to refuse to meet with them so you have to the oldest disfellowshipped and by default right so I was I ran into a guy at the bar I worked at and he had been disfellowshipped and he was a key discovered talk to you for a little bit night was my first time I realized I wasn’t alone this guy wasn’t a bad guy and is in and didn’t really want to get in death I was still really very scared of talking about the religion so but I did feel a little bit of relief that there’s somebody out there like you know that had a similar maybe experience and he started telling me to question things and about that time I I was listening to the radio and I heard there is a special coming on the morning about Joe’s with the cult of Jehovah’s Witnesses so odd that the course caught my attention and I tuned in at that at that time this would’ve been almost 20 years ago and I remember listening to this lady speak about the different things to different doctrines and I called and actually on that show and I had a couple of questions and the I mean it was very quickly my questions were very quickly debunked and I felt really like a fool but I recorded it and I kept that recording when I moved to go pursue my dreams and and while I was in school I ran across I just ran across the pamphlet about the judge Joe’s witness called and I always felt really guilty reading it to read like one page I close off and I was of the Nelson and in this pamphlet towards the end it had crisis of conscience in there and and I ordered it from Barnes & Noble’s and I ordered it for the world for them to stock and they didn’t have it in the stock didn’t have any money was going to school the diamond, barely getting by Sardis River sitting at Barnes & Noble’s and in reading it from cover to cover several times and it’s one in there and read it and I was really blown away I my brain had a hard time wrapping itself around what I was reading and this was the Internet was just starting to me that there is no Facebook and MySpace may be going on a little bit and I was too busy you know it with school and and still numbing myself by drinking at night when you parting with friends so that was my 20s so the next the wake ups would be enough they would come in stages a lot of times I would revert back can go okay these things are what I’m reading it can’t be true and all all kind of read some more Jehovah’s Witness material you know that I found it laundromats or something like that and just held on that are kind of bloated I don’t know out well with the good word to say so you just you would just when you would find that that information is, put you back in that place as a as a witness a little bit is that what you’re saying when I would find the about it being at the false doctrines and different things like that I I would a latch on and I would get really angry at the Jehovah’s Witness organization but then there is a part of me that was definitely trained from the Jehovah’s Witness organization that you think you can have a say that there are some situations in the hall of the Kingdom Hall really need to forgive your brothers and like dad and and they are not really godly person if you can’t get over something, leaving Jehovah’s hands and so he knows being confronted with all his hard evidence of the false doctrines and in many different other things I we get angry and then slowly add start to slip back into OG I think I need to just forget cat let go but all that did ultimately would just keep that keep the trauma buried and it wasn’t until I was 30 that I had a panic attack which I thought was a heart attack and I went to the emergency room and they told me was a panic attack and in what precipitated at her with what led up to that one of the things I always wanted to do was live off the grid in the cabin in the mountains I and I yeah so I saved up all these different books on spirituality do it in obedience to Hinduism you name it I had at night I wanted to read them and studied so I lived off the grid and no electricity add solar electricity via economic generator and stuff like that in a garden and I would say was the happiest year ever of my life and I read all these different spiritual beliefs and and so boring all these different religions into my brain trying to just sort out what I went through what is not and I had a complete and utter meltdown semester to having flashbacks of how far back the grooming when and Jesse Surinder’s childhood flashback the things that I have forgotten are things that I even remember but it was now realizing that these are huge things in the way they impacted the way I interact with people the way I have my self-awareness grew I suppose in the way that some of my reactions to things are working on productive and it just like a ticking time bomb it just kind of went off and ended up in the hospital day there was a panic attack ended up in therapy they diagnosed me with PTSD and that is where the 10 years ago are actually 12 years ago and they through therapy in different therapists and doctors have slowly been unraveling the love your long process now that I’ve got me to the point where now of this kind of slowly unraveling of what happened in my childhood that it was not okay and that there are different tools to that I’ve I’m learning and have learned to integrate into my awareness and and my reactions to help with being able to cope him I add I guess is a little regressive but it just hit me while you are talking about all that whatever happens with your ministerial servant husband of your grandmother your grandfather did that he that he ever pay up price other than maybe being disfellowshipped or whatever is did he was he still arounds kids after that is CEO live the day here whatever happened to him was his eventuality you know I did I had up until I guess the age of 34 I would occasionally check in with my Jehovah’s Witness family and they just said that you was really sorry and he was doing really good and the true as Jehovah’s Witness and that I should consider forgetting him and I kept reminding them it wasn’t really about forgiveness anymore it was more that I was to put myself in I just didn’t want to talk to him there is nothing to talk about horse and its coming he could’ve still been around kids at the Kingdom Hall or Haddonfield service or grooming anybody and everybody is just all well I mean he said he was sorry come on silvers you know he said he was sorry so you know it’s is done and you should just be happy and move on with them right right I mean yes I messed up everything and you get because I I stood up for myself and and I said you know I can forgive somebody that is when I want to hang out that is when I want to talk to them doesn’t mean I want to praise them it doesn’t mean I want anything to do with them I just want to move on and I’m labeled as still part of the world because I would not extend that verbal forgiveness to him like I had to make now they’re asking me to make the first steps of getting in contact with him to let him know I forgive him letting him off the lake and led the spray Jehovah’s Witness why “while I deal with the trauma of just allowing that to be okay so they just don’t get it have no my book is they are they are so they’ve devolved in the call and they lack human that humanity their basic humanity is the strip for the from them and they can’t do things like perspective taking the can’t look at you and try to take your perspective all they can see is what will be best for the Jehovah’s Witness organization and at and that would be for grandpa to be in it and for silvers to be in it as they see it and you know that now you have extra members which as you know that’s all they care about is all about numbers it’s all about getting people in and on the ark as they see it and it doesn’t matter what happened they don’t they don’t care about the details you don’t care about your feelings it’s just about actions and looking a certain way in and what you do but it’s not about how you feel about anything or whatever amine clearly you are being very healthy in forgiving him on whatever level course you’ll forgiveness is for you is not really for him anyway forgetting something you do so you can heal and then you know why would you want to hang out with him again the ureter clearly not going to want to and how they cannot see that is an indictment against them and their cults and how they conditioned out of people just normal human feelings at the threat really for me that I wouldn’t comply and talk with them and it was just really weird how that they are well I don’t know about a day but my great aunt and but I will say today that way and putting words in your mouth that I was an ungrateful part of Satan’s world and and and just really just pushing it back on me now that they’ve been up at give me the opportunity to be a part of God’s organization and how they by talking with the facts as I did and then I am continually in a demonized that you all about compliance either you comply and come back or your evil and you’re the devil is so crazy I just have to laugh because it be other alternative is striking enough therapy that it is you know even though it is depressing tired times it’s very overwhelming but more so that’s overwhelming now is just that I’m 42 and it took this long for me but the laughing part comes with you just as surviving in a meeting you guys gotta find something humorous and at RL said it will take me down though I know I totally get it I may not I’m sure on this podcast of of last in spots that people Midas felt were inappropriate at times just because it is is such a heavy thing in it’s absurd it’s the absurdity of the situation absurdity is is a part of humor and to be able to see that in things just how absurd they are of course there super painful things there you did that that pain on a level that I’m sure cannot be expressed there is no word for that pain nothing they could could accurately convey the deep feelings of that you’ve been through just a tremendous amount of of things it in in your life I am very grateful though that it sounds like you’re having an opportunity to heal your having an opportunity to to find yourself and to to work through all this stuff and you’re not alone there are so many other people that that have gone through it maybe not exactly the things that you have it so many of the things that you have an and we all we all hearts we were all victims of of an organization and of narcissistic manipulative people and we all walk away with PTSD so are most all of us I would assume so how does your is your past life obviously you’re still working through stuff but does it still impacts you your other things you said that you had learned some tools from a therapist about dealing with PTSD and such so your PTSD is not something that just proof magically goes away what are some things that you’ve learned about that are helping you in your in your recovery from all this that you might go to share with others you where do you still struggle me what kind of an update on on the the emotional situation of of silvers as this is all transpired well just a bit of a quick back story on whenever I got diagnosed I do not want to talk anybody I realized I didn’t realize the depth of what the trauma had done and how long since I suppressed it and when it manifested I really didn’t want have anything to do it anyone in the state actually paid for me to go to the therapy to pay for my gas to go to a therapist twice a week initially and I moved further off the grid actually into the national course for about three years because I did not want to talk to anybody at it when it’s seen anybody and when you are one is isolated and alone and it’s a chosen thing and I do have the diagnosis at that time of and do now still of PTSD actually see PTSD complex but dramatic stress disorder then I gathered up a lot of self-help books I paid attention in therapy I talked in therapy a lot and that was my only outlet were a good three years and then I started slowly integrating back into society and that was a very big challenge for me because I had been isolated in the mountains for off the grid for three years at that point but going to therapy twice a week I did have my dog in a couple of cats then so they kept me company in the tools that I learned was just to be self-aware just to be aware of what I’m feeling and try to isolate why I’m feeling the way and feeling and try to control my reactions to my feelings and also my reactions with becoming more in the forefront now is my reactions to other people’s behavior because I there is a I didn’t realize the longest time that I had much more control over my reactions to someone else’s behavior then I was that I was acting on that make sense I would I would assume you’re part of the that I claim no expertise here but I would assume the part of having PTSD in and having all these pent-up feelings and emotions yourself having all of these holding all of these feelings inside then when other people behave in a way that is unpleasant I’m sure it just makes you more reactive because you’re holding onto so much inside and the feel kind of causes that lot that loss of control in the way that you react emotionally to what other people are doing a is that kind of how it is that you’re just holding so much inside sure sure me know I die you know not only do I feel like I but like wise skillful is that I cannot trust Joe’s witnesses at all the but I feel like I can trust the world at large around me and nothing I mean they’re there to me they’re good and bad people were everyone going to go but you know sometimes there are a lot of times having a lot of complex trauma on top of trauma will help will make one see the world and more horrible than it then it can be my mechanism for coping for the longest time is a running away and my running away in my adulthood and especially my late 20s and 30s was to go to the mountain so I get stressed out which is actually is in a bad coping thing and if if done in a planned way so a lot of it was instantly packing up and taking my tent my animals and going to the mountains for a few months at a time which is kind of therapeutic a learn to find a lot of therapeutic tools for me in nature breathing and meditating but open but it also can be counterproductive in that it’s running away from society so right now I try to focus on a kind having a happy medium of knowing you have got tons of camping your crib after you know 15 years or so of of the of exploring the amount of just got a ton of it though I know that I can go at any time and and surviving the mountains and connect with nature like that but it doesn’t have to be during a light are fight restart response could have happened to that it doesn’t have to be because of that I can I can wait and wait that out and get to calm, placing myself and then go a I want to go camping because I want to connect with nature and sometimes that you know that my symptoms occasionally do flare up to where I’m like okay I really do have to today go to the waterfall or gap in the mountains and sit by some trees and just relax and and take it all and watch the Eagles fly over or whatever animals or birds I fear don’t see your so that’s the how Ivan how I’ve tried to leveled that out because they did get a little lopsided for a while and in talking with people of learned that you know we welcome and think everybody has at what everybody does have a story everybody has a perspective of life I may not agree with everyone’s perspective I may not my story is pretty intense sometimes and there’s other people stories that are really intense to so help me to talk to people about what I’ve gone through a little bit today and sort of baring my soul somewhat but I realize that just on daily interactions I don’t have to bare my soul I can give just a little bit of bits and pieces of my life and be empathetic in understanding and I find I get that more in return when I’m open to that and not seeing the world through a bunch of fearful lands that makes it cost that’s beautiful as when so there’s a concept called the gap and it’s sometimes we have the the propensity to look at how far we’ve got to go and we forget how far we’ve come and how far we’ve come is that gap and you know when I think about you it I know what you say 32-ish I think when you were being diagnosed with sepia PTSD and you didn’t want to talk to anybody and now here you are on a podcast talking to a stranger baring your soul telling your story of a like in that gap there there there is so much growth and you’ve obviously come so far you speak so intelligently and not just intellectually at showing intelligence but just emotionally and mentally showing intelligence you’ve obviously learned so much in what is a really a relatively short amount of time compared to one’s life you’ve learned things that there are people in their 70s and 80s you have never learned you sometimes these these harsh circumstances force us to learn hard lessons and it’s out of though the hardest times in life that we learn some of the most beautiful things and I I just it’s an honor for me that that you would that you would talk to me especially after you everything you shared and where you were you know being diagnosed and everything not wanting to talk to anybody you’ve obviously come a long way he doesn’t matter how far you’ve got to go home and you’ll keep working on that I’m sure but I hope you feel proud of how far you been able to come already you know I I am I do feel proud of that maybe I was just hitting me on different levels lately I just how far I have, I would’ve never imagined say 20 years ago whenever I listen to that first a radio show about Joe’s witness told I and I was actually calling to qualify question/defend the colt even though I had Artie gone through some trauma with a cold this organization that I would never imagine 20 years later that I would be speaking very that I would be as knowledgeable as I am about their the many different false doctrines and different things like that but I would also be at an an advocate for for healing and and taking a deeper look into this religious Colts and the damage it’s time I never thought I’d be able to articulate the type way I’m doing today him when I listen to that reporting from years ago I just was and I sounded like a very naïve kid trying to defend something new nothing about you we were all there you know we we’ve all been that person it is strike you I you what we all you mentioned something earlier about being 42 years old and in all the battles you fought to get where you are today in it it is easy to to look at at time that is gone by and to have regrets or toll immense the loss of of one of the most precious assets we have that which is time and I I feel the same way I at times I think about how I just turned 41 last weekend and how I didn’t get out till I was 38 and all the time that went by but there if I hadn’t have gone through that and it doesn’t mean that I wish I had gone through some of the things I went through but if I hadn’t and I wouldn’t be in the place I am today where I actually get to do something that’s quite rewarding and help people and ill for you to I don’t mean to put words in your mouth but you had you not gone through what you went through again not saying that you would’ve wish to have gone through it all in your here you stand at 42 being able to articulate your story so well that there will be other people out there that hear this that will be helped by and it may not make the pass go away and there’s still a lot of pain associated with that but it’s there’s a lot of healing that is going on just I assuming you being able to tell your story today and then you will facilitate healing for others and that’s that’s what it’s all about you we can’t wear all good to go through some shit in our lives whether we were Jehovah’s Witnesses are not in oh everybody like you said has a story and being able to put it out there and so articulate as you’ve done the day you know you’re really able to help other people and that’s the that’s something that that really is kind of priceless I believe so I really am especially lately just the more this been unfolding for man and how other people stories really helped me open up I want to be a person I got to thinking about what kind of person what kind of legacy if I if I could choose the kind of something that people can remember about me and what I would like to be able to do my life is to embrace my trauma at as much as I can embrace it in the sense that I did go through it not going to deny that what can I do what can I take out this trauma and what can I tell people and what, who can I give them to pull through their definite Italy many many many times I’ve felt beyond hopeless and beyond repair and sometimes I slip back into that but I really think the key is talking to people and especially when I’m feeling like that even before it gets to that point keep reminding myself that we can people need each other to hills specially if they can resonate with the trauma and in feel like their story is being validated you as it’s I agree it’s so hard to heal in isolation I understand that your nature is very healing I feel the same way but to heal that part of us that is broken by other people the other people broke we kind of need other people to help repair and by telling your story about being vulnerable and by listening to other people stories we cannot feel so alone in what we went through and it can be quite healing is there anything that you have that your you’re hoping to be able to do in the future do you still you talked about your dream life and things like that and you I know you’re you’ve had some health problems of late but you still have any dreams that your that your looking forward to her hoping to be able to to manifest in your life in the future yes I do one of the things you know by an abaya of archive on accident or by accident I stumbled across living off the grid grid living off the grid for so long to load knowledge of how to be self sustainable side I’d like to pass with that knowledge on there’s a lot of stuff out there now talking about that and also note considering wage considering what I’ve gone through a would like to help other people and help other people not feel so lost and vulnerable whether that’s just talking to them are if my Gedney a financial position to where I can use that to help other people that would be great other life goals are is is to continue working on my art and continue doing some writing on and only be open to the experience I think that’s something I’ve learned recently is his life unique and make you can make plans for how things are going are you like things to be alive does take twists and turns and just be really open to the journey but my value system of wanting to help people feel not to do to feel heard is a really big thing for me while the builder some some great goals and things to to reach out for now I got asked her or we can see you on TV on naked and afraid someday Weiser also you come out man… Sorry could be baking with arthritis I don’t know that God is so cool though that the EI I like I like the camp I have honestly I watch shows like naked and afraid are you washed bear girls back in the day or the there was another guy who was at the same time the blanket on his name and how to show anyway a survivor man that was it and I love those shows I love seeing your people be able to do that out in the wild and and to live in and I think there’s a lot of healing to be found in nature side I think it’s beautiful that you have that yellow skills and and that that place is now maybe a healthier place for you to go to to heal him is there anything that I that I haven’t asked you or anything that you would like to say any stories that maybe you didn’t get to tell her anything you’d like to say that people from your past maybe Yahoo raised you are people who might the maybe you haven’t been able to talk to you and you been shunned by for years as there is anything you’d like to say as far as talking to a beanie family our friends from years ago that shunned me there is really nothing I like to say I did think everything’s been said you I sent letters to a lot of family members and two people that were friends telling them that I love them very much and am basically since they were sending me I actually worded it very nicely but all of their shutting me I was therefore not going to talk to them that I like I deserve to be hurt repetitively over and over again but I didn’t break like that I just said I love I love them and I appreciate it they were in my life and I wish them the best like they possibly have so there’s nothing I want to say beyond that night I’ve Artie said it really it’s just on focusing board without them in my life and it’s not a out of vindictiveness it’s out of out of self-care I don’t finally learning how to take the steps to continue to step on loving myself is for a long time I did not, I’m really glad that you found that ability to, love yourself in ways that maybe others didn’t you know it sounds like there was kind of a dearth of love and a lot of your life and adding it’s great that you can you’ve healed enough in our finding that for yourself and that you’ve got things that you’re looking forward to in life that you healed so much not the journeys over but you’ve been able to heal so much and that now your reaching out and and trying to help others to heal and at’s really appreciate you being open and being willing to do this today for for telling your story for putting yourself out there and for trying to help others yourself I think that’s beautiful and I really appreciate you doing that and I really appreciate you having me on your wonderful for me I want to thank Silvers for speaking up you know it took a lot of courage to say what he did and I also promised an update on them so what I’m gonna do here a minute share a Facebook post that I made the that features this update for him actually features a little background as to how we met as well I’m just gonna read it and I hope that this isn’t just an update but I hope that it encourages you to take action in the sea where you can help as well so this is what I wrote on Facebook this isn’t just my personal Facebook but also in the group that this is a long post with a promise it’s worth it me I am posting this below it’s something that makes me feel weird opposed but I’m doing it to make a point it only takes one person at the right time to change the life of someone else be that person what follows is something that someone posted that mention someone that help them and that someone was me I found this guy broken and scattered and honestly talking of suicide on X JW forum all he needed was for one person to believe in him this is a brag but I have a greater point that I’m in a make after his words which follow some of these are the words of Silvers a direct quote from hit a post inmate an interesting story that happened to me on solstice but first the back story for context year ago I let go of all toxic relationships if there was even a remote question that someone was toxic in my life I let them go so is the mental processing began to my brain relax enough to start to break it all down I got real sick a month after with the flu followed by an ammonia twice then my body started flaring up and shutting down the doctors cannot find what was wrong but there was were plenty of possible scary diagnoses by the end of summer and heading in the fall I was nearly bound to a wheelchair but use the Cain and Walker mostly if there was ever a question whether or not humans need other humans I am proof I am fiercely independent to my detriment I met a person online that really let me vent to listen to me in fact this person was awesome enough to make an effort to check in on me via email my health started to improve rapidly everything healthwise and even of it financially as it too often go hand-in-hand went back to normal and I got in shape again if it were not for this individual I would be dead this person save me from a certain self-inflicted and/or dying of a heartbreak which can actually happen to a person anyway I busted my butt in is a busted my butt in the late fall to try to make up for the years losses after selling most everything to survive I asked nothing from no one I simply believed in someone’s possible belief in me and wrote any wave of that thought I no longer believe in myself so it’s all I had to go on I’ve never even met this person the last 2 1/2 months I worked so hard that I barely remember any of it I was hoping we moved out of the remote area of been stuck in for several years now I never mind I never minded remote areas in fact drawn to them however the lack of real human interaction have become not good for me mentally at this point in my life I lived off the grid and in the mountains for over a decade now with a two-year break so I am no stranger to my thoughts into being alone but humans need other humans the big move did not happen but I did get moved into a slightly better place back to solstice I always try to do something just for myself that day usually or 99% of the time alone even when I had a lot of friends this year something odd happened on solstice night my computer crashed losing all my data from the last 20 years I had a DVD and VCR combo that was left over from a toxic relationship and it to crash that night the phone I had from the toxic era of toxic friends also died on solstice I normally would’ve been upset about seemingly all my electronics with years worth of data gone but I wasn’t I felt like I was set free to continue to have my solstice far through the night and the next affiliate was a major cleansing for me I didn’t get to celebrate Thanksgiving or Christmas because I was working so hard may be online it looks like I was celebrating but I wasn’t I was simply rushing through them to go to work I’m totally okay with that going for quick motions of the holidays on the same day everyone else seemingly celebrates so a few days ago I crashed from working my butt off and hit a temporary low it lasted a day the next day I dusted myself off and went to a gig for a very manipulative clients on the way which happened every time I would get nauseated this person lacks empathy and it flowed out and really affected me he knew nothing of my year troubles but it hit me that I didn’t want that type of client that I’m worth so much more I let him go and feel amazing yes money will be very tight this winter unless the universe has more which is agreed-upon it’s lit up its sleeve I decided to take all of January off to celebrate regroup and love myself the love I’ve needed more than anything my Christmas New Year’s and even Thanksgiving will be the theme all month my tree is lit and I still have presents from a for a baby and myself to open if you made it this far while what an attention span for Facebook reading LOL also I find is serendipitous that the electronics that had negative things in toxic past relationships simply went in one night this is why I love this year solstice this is why my holidays are going to be in all month affair during January lastly but nowhere least thank you to the one person that was willing to give me a small amount of their time if the only reason I feel I got so far after such a year so you this was his post and then I continued that was his quote and I continued and meant the world to me to see them write this and the know that I helped in some way but this is about patting myself on the back when I was at my lowest in 2008 and was suicidal myself it’s a one person to show me genuine interest and kindness and to point out something that helps me after making a ton of changes in my life healthy changes that would lead me out of the cold of Jehovah’s Witnesses that I was in I looked once more for a person I reached out to get a therapist and I only had one visit why all I needed was for someone to tell me that I was all right I was so alone on an island with the whole Jade of thing at the time and and I just need of one person to see me hear me and tell me that I was a good person put in a weird and cold the place I never went back so I post this to ask you who can you be that one person for who could you show that you believe in who could you just listen to you may never know the impact that you’re making you may not get a message like the one above what you still may make a huge difference to someone look for opportunities to listen to someone that is hurting to hear them out don’t tell them that everything they do is wrong just listen let them know that you are there and then be there obviously you have to watch that you don’t get sucked dry by energy vampires that latch on with no design on making real changes in their lives but the right word at the right time could really make a difference for someone who was looking for something better that’s why this guy came to the form I was on he was looking that should be rewarded with others that reach back I’m so glad that I saw what was happening because the form he was on is pretty rough it was a form the first helped me but you have to go in was super’s thick skin is not for everyone and I shudder to think of what may have happened if I and at least one other pro-poster hadn’t been there to be kind to this guy that was so down and hurt by so many awful things one person helped me turn my entire life around now I got to be that one person to someone else so when you see someone hurting please reach out you to might just be that one person to someone and change a life so maybe maybe you’d like to start by sending a message of support to Silvers if you’d like to you can do so by going to shun podcast.com where you can leave a comment form on the episodes page of your also to find the resources that were mentioned in the episode there and the video for the song that he chose to represent his journey Silvers chose a song love by Lana Delray to represent his journey are right now that’s not the only place you can comment on the episode we also have a Facebook group called shun podcast it’s really growing where we have people discussing episodes in their own lives and I try to do things there to encourage people to find good things in life and grow as I stated earlier I want to give you some highlights in the past few weeks just to give you an idea of the group that we have every Wednesday we post things were happy about in life for the week every Wednesday weekend we post things that were doing for ourselves as part of self-care this weekend immediately this weekend when I’m releasing this were to have our second show and tell Sunday where people can post pics and talk about some things they had that were cool and meant something to them you’ll being shunned we don’t have a lot of people with us anymore that we can share your cool things that we enjoy with and so this is a chance for people to the share and build community one of our members actually announced this month that he is having his first kit on the group before he did anywhere else and I do know that really meant a lot to me that he did that and I as he the group is gone of its own little family in many of us are missing our families and the you not only this guy has bought a house that unfortunately you know he never got to share with us his actual blood family but now you he’s about to have his easy-going analysis is that you have his first kid and so he did that on the group 1st and that meant a lot to me personally and amass also going to be announcing something pretty big and there in the next coming weeks as I I typically try to put things up in the group 1st if I can so there’s things happening in there my goal is to keep it more about us as individuals in our stories and supporting one another informing community than just keeping up with the latest Jacob stuff I put a new way to interact with the show up on the website@shunpodcast.com where you can leave me a voice message for use on the podcast now on the last episode I asked the question but nobody responded so rather than do that what I’m to just encourage is if if you have anything if you have something you need want need or want to say is go to the site click on the tab on the right and you tell me whatever you want tell me a quick funny story about your your life in the cult give me suggestions for the show asked me a question that maybe I answered on the next episode in and include your question this is an easy way for you to be part of the show if you like so you can use whatever device you have weathered your computer tablet phone whatever this click on the tab on the right of whatever pager on it shun podcast.com and I’ll get the message if you haven’t been to the site lately you’ll see that I’ve even got some shun swag up there now I have some ice T-shirts and a hoodie with the shun logo on that look nice people seem to really like them I also have some more ideas that I’ll get up there soon but all in due time so it’s a way you can support the show and get a pretty cool shudder hoodie at the same time you can also find the podcast on YouTube under the channel called shun podcast on is the grandma shun podcast and on twitter it shun podcast and all of those are shun podcast as one word if you like to hear my story and at a great insight into the how the cult of Jehovah’s Witnesses works you can do so at the podcast my original podcast called this JW life also found@thisJWlife.com I want to take the time to think people who really help me make the show possible by helping to support it financially this month both Matthew and Nico signed up to help and support the show seriously though the show takes not just work in time but there’s costs involved in getting audio hosted websites hosted in getting transcripts may keeping equipment working also spent a great deal of time helping people through emails in my Facebook group and other social media so you know you can really help support me in my efforts for as little as a dollar a month and it means the world to me to know the others are in this with me that people believe in me and believe in what I’m doing here so it’s encouraging to see people to want to support it you can do so at page 3 on PAT REO in such patriotic.com/shunned if you are so inclined out and if you don’t have the opportunity are not inclined to do so in a monetary way one way that you can support the show both the shun podcast and this JW life is the head to iTunes and leave a five-star review for them helps them get found in the search engine you them that’s what all these things are like iTunes different things are essentially search engines of podcast so it helps it to get found in the searches shows as popular and then more people can find it and the more people that find it the more people we can help so the next episode is gonna be the story of Daniel Daniel is not shunned right now however you know part of shunning isn’t just the actual shutting it’s the fear of shunning and how it keeps people stuck in the cult so we have up IMO someone who is physically in but mentally LPI ammo he’s one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and we’ve done some things to protect his identity I think that you’re gonna find this a fresh look at things pretty interesting were going to Glenn close the show out now with the song Noel yet by fairway or you can find a link to her song to the page on page for the show to resources mentioned and more not just on the website but if you’re listening on a podcast up you can probably get it all in the app by looking at the description so as we all in all episodes love others do no harm and go be happy and