Episode Five – Caleb is shunned by Jehovah’s Witnesses

Caleb Is Shunned By Jehovah’s Witnesses.mp3

[00:00:14] Welcome to the shunned podcast. Today we have the story of Caleb who took a stand and left the cult of Jehovah’s Witnesses just 18 years of age. He’s a brave young man and he had to make very hard choices. So listen to his story and afterwork keep listening. I want to tell you what this young man is doing and how you can send him a message of support. Also there’s a special announcement after this story. So keep listening. My name is Caleb. I used to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I’m 19 and I am Sean I was born into the religion. I was baptized at 14 my parents my parents. My father was born in the religion as well. My mom got baptized at 16. She was related to some Jehovah’s Witnesses in the congregation. I was part of the Jersey Shore congregation in Pennsylvania. It’s kind of an odd name but for centralP.A. But yes she was related to some Jehovah’s Witnesses got studying and she got baptized A16. My dad was born in. And my grandfather and my grandmother were actually the ones that started kind of in our family. My grandfather he he was part of the Seabees battalion in Vietnam. He got sick he got drafted and then he decided to join. So he wouldn’t get put in as regular army infantry. So he went in as a construction worker and the Seabees battalion as a welder. I think I think he had gotten training before that to be a welder.

[00:02:09] But when he got back he was in California teaching firearms classes to soldiers. And then sometime after that he started working in the private sector I guess you could say. And he. One of his co-workers was a Joves witnesses and they kind of got started studying then it kind of went off to my grandmother it was kind of interesting. He said after that after he knew it was the truth he went out and he was telling other people. He worked with in the past about it. And it’s the truth. You got to get into it. Yeah. So they got they got into it and that kind of started my family to Joves witnesses while being a Joves witness. When you’re born and it’s your entire life. My mom you know as I said she got baptized when she was 16. She’d talk about when before that she went out with guys boys really when she was in middle school and elementary school and she had Christmas and everything. And she gave all that up when she was 16 obviously. But I didn’t know about that. So it really was nothing to me it but I took great pride in being one of Joe’s witnesses. When you are a Jehovah’s Witness it’s it’s kind of a contradiction in that it’s your entire world. But the organization is so small and you know it’s so small but you think they’re everywhere and that the world is is embracing are this giant force in the world. And so I I took great pride in being a Jehovah’s Witness and being a part of that force. And now our family the Tanners my last name is Tanner.

[00:03:53] They were well-known obviously in our congregation and the surrounding congregations but also on the circuit and even in the district we’re just well known as as being spiritual hardworking people we were tradespeople. You know we weren’t we weren’t business people or car dealers or anything on that level. But my grandfather was a welder. My dad is a welder. He teaches welding. So what I’m saying is we were all respected and my we all gave good talks. We were all just spiritual and we knew what we were doing. My grandfather he is an elder now he’s actually in the German congregation in centralP.A. He’s out preaching to Amish and whatnot but he was the service overseer. He was a lot of things probably life but he was the service overseer for a while in our creation. My dad was actually the Kobie the coordinator for quite some time after one of the other elders died. But yeah so they’re both respected elders. And so I was respected and I took great pride in that when I was Joe’s witness. I didn’t view the world as it is. It’s not black and white as I thought it was. It’s very complicated. I thought that every little natural disaster or everything that happened at theU.N. or between nations was due to this being near the end. Right. Every time every time someone got disfellowshipped or I heard about someone who I used to hang out with leaving you know I thought it was it was like a switch you know just OK. I’m not going to hang out with them anymore they’re obviously bad influence.

[00:05:44] And that also transferred to school when I was in elementary school. I actually told my friends at my friends at school that I couldn’t be friends with them because they weren’t going to be true friends like apparently the ones at the congregation were going to be isolated myself in middle school and high school not necessarily in interaction but in having deeper friendships. I didn’t really get to know the people I was around although I was out there with my friends and I’m connected to them now. The ones I had in highschool. But I definitely didn’t form deeper friendships with them. I wasn’t my best friend who’s my roommate now. I never I didn’t go to the movie theater even with him before I left. I wasn’t allowed. I tried to ask my parents but they wouldn’t even let me. I would get to know somebody to a certain point you know one of my peers but that wasn’t an end. That they would be limited to school. My school friend but when I left that area the person my best friend who was a Joves witness. His name is Trent. He was my friend outside of school. He was my best friend period. You know he’s the guy hang hung out with. He’s the guy I went to the movie theaters with or we went to. Kargi Asian football games or whatever he’s the guy I hung at his house by it when I was at school. You know those were kind of my school friends I can kind of push them off from being anything more than that. My childhood wasn’t bad.

[00:07:26] It was well I mean I thought it was normal. I knew it was I knew somewhat that it was different from the rest of the world. But it was a normal Jehovah’s Witness childhood. I thought but it wasn’t bad. I mean I can’t say I had a bad childhood. I had Lego’s. I had Transformers. I had everything I could dream of. Right. That’s all I needed. And if I had asked for one more thing Id be video games when I was a kid. But I mean other than that it was that it was I it was a good childhood. But like I said earlier I isolated myself in school from other kids. And when I was younger I mean I told kids that I couldn’t be friends with them so it wasn’t bad at home you know school I just salute the flag and whatnot at the meetings. I mean I was I had my first Bible reading at 8 age 8 I think and I was progressing you know I was when I left I was probably within the next year going to be a ministerial servant. So I was I was you know rapidly progressing and everybody like me I liked pretty much everybody. I didn’t have I didn’t have Christmas or 4th of July or whatever. And I mean something else. I didn’t. I guess you could say I didn’t know my family. My family was limited to my grandfather my grandmother who I’ve already brought up my mom and dad and my sister and that was pretty much it. I have an aunt who I know more now than I ever have.

[00:09:07] And I have an uncle on my mom’s side my aunts on my dad’s side. I have an uncle on my mom’s side that I know better than I ever have. You know but I didn’t know those sides of the family outside of Jehovah’s Witnesses. We’d go to family reunions. But it was they were like total strangers. And again I isolated myself I didn’t I talked to them but I didn’t you know go any deeper than that. Yeah. Eric never connected on any type of level. So I mean he could you could say that I suppose I suppose my car Ignatian people in my congregation became my family my entire social network. When I got to be about 12 although I was a Joves witness I’m still a normal boy. Right. So I started getting more into girls as I had puberty and I got into you know watching pornography and whatnot. And I felt totally guilty about doing that and eventually I got to start masturbating you know a little later on and that that was kind of the marking. If I look back at anything that was the mark of my teenage years because it’s totally it’s totally looked down upon. I mean anybody can look down on it but it’s like if you do this you’re not going to make it into paradise. You know if you keep doing this forever you’re you’re not going to get into paradise. And so I was always feeling guilty as a teenager because I was doing that I tried to quit. I tried to quit. I tried to quit.

[00:10:52] I even told my dad at one point and you know that helped for a while and then I got to the elders were asking me questions about baptism. And so I had three different sessions with the elders about going over the questions from my baptism and everything. And I was still doing it then you know I had a spurt there right before my baptism where I was doing all right. And after my baptism when I was doing all right. But then you know as soon as I had a relapse it was like overwhelming guilt. And I think that’s the one. Strike on my teenage years that I can really look back on and that would that would kind of play out somewhat before I leave you know up with how I live. My teenage years weren’t bad. I mean I as I got into high school peers other students they started to look at me a little better I could joke with a more. I was no longer picked on I was picked on a lot. In middle school. But yeah I was like the class clown I’m not the class clown in the yearbook but I was I should have claimed that title I mean come on. But definitely high school was a lot better than elementary or middle school. For me it was just a better time. But again overwhelming guilt over what I supposedly been doing wrong. I started to feel like I could never quit after I tried quitting so many times I actually got to the point where in my head I was like well I may not make it into paradise but maybe I can help somebody out in the ministry to get there.

[00:12:38] So yeah I was kind of like sacrificing myself in that way. And I had actually gone to the elders I filled out a regular pioneer application. Once I was well last September not just some tempera we just had the September before that I had filled out a regular pioneer application because that’s the beginning and there’s service here. And I just graduated and I couldn’t in my right mind tell them that I wasn’t having these problems you know. And so I actually told my dad again and you know trying to quit again. But I was almost a regular pioneer before I left. If it weren’t for that so I got my first job at 16. You know I’m like a normal being. There’s a brother there is a brother that we’re eating dinner with. And he said Yeah I’ve had a job all my life since I was 16 you know. Never have I not really had a job since I was 16. I was thinking I had you know I shall I be like him and get a job when I’m 16 and have a job. So I my first job was at 16 and I was working at a restaurant with a bunch other worldly guys. You know I was the only Joves went up there. I could joke the guys at work you know and they swore and they’d make dirty jokes and whatever was funny you know it was is fun to be around them. And it was hard work too. I worked in a restaurant where you moved you know you you did your job or you were gonna get yelled at.

[00:14:16] You don’t know bullshitting around home you know you hustle. And it was hard work. But we all still joke with each other and the only time I’d really gotten work done any kind of real work was at with my grandparents grandfather or with my dad or the Kaimal you know and so I could joke with these world guys and was fine. They didn’t. I didn’t have a significant impact on you know when I lean left or my decision to leave but it definitely changed something on how I viewed worldly people. In the summer of 2015 I was looking to complete for my school from my high school to graduate. At that time I had been a junior and in the fall there I was going to be a senior in high school. And I would have to complete a senior project. And so for my senior project I actually want to do something super easy that I would have to put very little work into. And that would not really affect much of my life. So I wanted to exhort pioneer. And so I filled out you know I did all the information for the school to apply for that. And I sat down with the principal and the vice principal and we talked about me auxillary pioneering how that would have some impact on the community how I could have some relation with the community in doing this because I was really a big focal point was our community interaction. And yes I talk with them and weighed the pros and cons they let me do it.

[00:16:03] And so over that summer I was able to exhibit a pioneer for two months I think it was July in August of 2015. I did that. And I actually Auxilio pioneered in my congregation jersey shore and also the Milton congregation. Miltonp.a And it’s funny cause I exalt pioneered with this this girl I won’t name her because she is out. This girl called Jen I exhilarate pioneered with Jen and we’re hitting it off like it was. It was awesome. We had a great time for those two months really pioneering together. She was done as well and she’d later leave she left to actually Jehovah’s Witnesses before I did. She’s a little younger than I am by 10. But yes I did that and that that’s kind of where I was at that point. I wanted to even in my school work. I wanted to incorporate Joe’s witnesses even on my senior project. I wanted to do that. And so come my senior year. That’s the mindset I was in my last year of high school. I got to figure out where I’m going what I’m going to do. I want to go to Bethel but I have two regular pioneer before I go to Beth. What am I going to do when I’m at Bethel. My my father and my mother. I think my mother still works there I’m sure. But they both work at a college in Williamsport Penn College. And so I could get free college. It wasn’t. It’s not. It was a trade school more than anything they wanted to be called a college. But my dad like I said he’s a welder. He teaches welding there at college.

[00:17:48] And so I wanted to get an associate’s degree in a trade which was not against the rules or even against file even against common thinking you know if you go for a trade if you go for a trade it’s all right. Right. But you go for something like Business Administration. That’s a little different. But if you go for a trade. Yeah that’s all right. So I was going to go for a two year degree in mechatronics which is like mechanical electrical electronic stuff that’s what I was going to do I decided that. And so going into my final year high school that’s kind of where I was headed. I knew what I was going to do and I wanted to get to Bethel. So that’s where I was at. Now there was a girl my at my school was very small. It was K through 12. Like 400 kids on campus at that time I was like 350 our classes are really small my class my graduating class was like 14 kids I think oh yeah I was the valedictorian but you know I didn’t get grades good enough to be a valedictorian in my opinion anyway. There is this girl really really pretty. Her name is Kaylee and she she started flirting with me. Kind of like the second half of the year second half of the school year which was crazy because you know I’m I’m nerdy Caleb over here. And so we started talking we’d snapchat each other and whatnot.

[00:19:21] You know after school and I’d kind of flirt back with her too because like I wasn’t going to have a relationship with her obviously but you know maybe I can I don’t know how as a guy you know out of my mind a Joves what this guy out of my mind you know I’ve kind of fought back a little bit. So we graduate I can skip to that we graduate. I present my senior project goes great I’m valedictorian. I give my speech at graduation. Yeah I can. I like telling people that yowes valedictory to my class. And then I just like to leave it there because my class was 14 kids some kind of leave and they can they can think of how many kids were my class on there. But yeah we we did that. And then my grandparents always want to take myself and my sister out to Wyoming and because that’s where they used to live that’s where my dad was born. He was born in I forget what hospital out there but they always went MIT to take us out there see Yellowstone visit some friends of theirs which I was talking about earlier. I’ll get into that. So we go on vacation was like four weeks we drive out to Wyoming and we see Yellowstone everything and we visit some friends of my grandparents out there a couple that my grandfather knew way back in the day before they were Jehovah’s Witnesses. And he actually got them to convert. And the husband actually doesn’t do anything about Joe’s witnesses anymore but the wife is like a regular pioneer she’s like in and but this entire time I’m talking to Caylee over snapchat. And we’re just talking to each other.

[00:21:03] But I’m a soldier I was 16 and I’m still I’m still you know wanting to do what’s right in their eyes and we get. And we’re out Wyoming and I just tell her if you’re not gonna be one of Joe’s witnesses out that’s why I was trying to do I was trying to convert her because I kind of wanted a relationship with her. And I just told her if you’re not going to be a Joe was nice I can’t keep talking to you anymore. And so we kind of cut things off but we got back from Wyoming and I started auxillary pioneering regularly. I had quit my job because I didn’t like it and I was going out Wyoming for four weeks and I just quit. And so we got back and I didn’t have a job for a few months I was running low on money so I got I went to work for a construction crew of Joves witnesses and I was working with them for a few months. And this is around probably around August. I started classes at Penn College for mechatronics and shoe. It was like residential electric and AC and whatever. It’s pretty fun doing all that but sometime around September October she gets in contact with me again Kaylee and we start talking a little bit more and eventually I come to the point where I’m like I really want to have a relationship with her and I got to figure out if this is the truth or not. So that’s kind of when that was kind of like the turning point I wasn’t going to give up the organization for her by it. I wasn’t.

[00:22:52] If the organization was not the truth I wasn’t going to give her up because of it. So so I decided to do more research. Basically I came to the point where I was like if this is the truth I’m a stick with it. If it’s not I’m going to stick with Caylee. That’s that’s the point I came to and I did my own research. And I remember sitting there late at night and all this is coming back to me now. I was sitting there in my bed. Door closed. I already knew the whole routine from years of looking up stuff I shouldn’t. And I was looking up videos on youtube of people examining the Bible and eventually I started watching religionvs. Evolution Debates and God versus evolution in debates. I had kind of make that made a pact with myself at the beginning that I wasn’t going to look up any apostate information from Joves witnesses. Right. So anything about Jehovah’s Witnesses I wanted to keep it to the Bible so that’s that’s kind of how I started my Exodus. You could say is because of her. And I grant her all that we’re not together anymore. But I kind of give her that in my life. She she turned my whole life around you know unbeknownst to her. I remember texting her some nights and just like freaking out because I’m finding that my entire life was a lie. You know it and just telling her that all this information I’m learning she’s nice. She may have not gotten a whole lot of it because I was just going off and often off and off just these long long ass text.

[00:24:39] But yeah it was just crazy time. And nobody knew. Nobody I knew I was going through this and I didn’t want them to know for a while it was all within a matter of weeks and it might have been fast tracked by Caylee’s influence their arm that I wanted to be with Caylee. It was within weeks actually within probably a week I knew it wasn’t the truth. But in weeks I made my decision that I no longer wanted to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. We were like four or five weeks. And I picked a day December 19th to tell my parents and my grandparents to my best friend Trent that I no longer wanted to be a Jehovah’s Witness. That was kind of the perfect day. College was out. So my parents college had just gotten out. My parents wouldn’t be busy and they could like take the next month and a half to kind of go through their is going to be a Joves witness anymore. Very quickly I decided not be a JOAs witness but those were kind of the early things December 19th rolls around and I’m scared as hell. I had told my grandparents I wanted to talk to them that night. I told my I told my mom early in the morning my plan was I was going to tell my parents. Then my grandparents and my best friend that night we’re gonna go out to see Star Wars Rogue One for the first time which is a great setting you know that you’re going to tell your best friend that you’re leaving the religion but that didn’t really work out.

[00:26:19] My dad was out cutting wood because we burned wood and he got real pissed off and as he does he gets angry a lot. And he came in the house all angry and sighs like Alright I’m not going to I’m not going to talk to you guys until late at night. And because I was going to talk to them that morning in the proper order. And so I figure out what time came around that I was going to go meet Tran. He was out in service is probably around three o’clock or something. I decide to get my grandparents tell my grandparents and go straight to my best friend. So I put bolt I put together this Manila packet full of information. You know everything I’d found right about the pyramids Noah’s Ark contradictions in the Bible. That’s about it. And I was going to give it to my friend Trent and I stuck it under the seat in my car. I told him I want to drive right. I went to night to be on my terms. I picked him up. We went to the movie theater saw Rogue One is pretty good but you know it’s kind of slow in the middle little bit. So you know we were friends right. Right up to the end right up till I told him we were friends and we were joking. Everything I was pretty calm about it but we the movie theater was Williams where we got in the car and he was like I told him at the beginning of the evening I want to tell you something very serious. I had done something like this before.

[00:27:48] You know I told him I want to tell you some don’t make me back out. So you knew what what to do. And so he was like OK what do you want to tell me. I was like How about we drive back up to the hall. His car was up there. And so we did. And I put it in park. The bad thing was which I didn’t really want to happen was he had to work that night so he would he wouldn’t have to go to work. After I told him this I really didn’t want that to happen but I just told him I said and you know this is very serious. I no longer want to be one of Joe’s witnesses and he kind of stopped trying. He’s I think right now he’s like 22 23. He’s a few years older than I am. He’s always been the person I looked up to. He’s always been my role model in life and. And he was asking me questions about it. You know very you start getting emotional. But he was asking me questions about and I pulled out a manila envelope and I said it then I said if you want to take that’s all I found right now if you want to take that take that with you. Look at things. That’s all your choice. And he declined. He wasn’t yet. And he started crying. He sat right there and cried in front of me. That mean I mean that’s fine. You know I tried to cry I’m not a crier but.

[00:29:17] Yeah he I told him all that I didn’t want to be a Jehovah’s Witness anymore. I’d been I’d been doing more research. And that’s just the conclusion I came to. And he cried. He told me Well I hope you get through this. I hope you change your mind. And he got out of the car. I called off work. He went home and he cried for another two hours. He still lived with his parents. And he told his parents everything he was with them for like another two hours crying over you know your best friend we’re brothers basically because every well every other guy in our congregation had left. Every every other boy around our age had left. And it was just us to you know it was very hard. After I pulled out I went to my grandparents and I sat down on my grandparents. We kind of bullshit it for a while and then I told them Well I’ve I’ve come to the conclusion I no longer want to be one of Joe’s witnesses and my grandfather is. I don’t look at it in the same now as I did. But he was like what. And he he just at the start asked me why why why do you feel this way and then he said it’s all it’s all one blur the whole night some blur or whatever conversations I had I had the same conversation pretty much three different times. It’s all a blur and he just said I would never give up my creator over you know whatever you found. And I didn’t. I didn’t present him with the information they’re both 70. I didn’t want to.

[00:30:57] I didn’t want to ruin the perfect life they built for themselves. I just want to say you know I’m out. I’ll tell you why if you want to know but I’m out. And that’s. That night December 19th is the last time my grandfather ever talked to me. And we were tight. We were sure we were. He was the other guy looked up to Trent and then my grandfather and he dropped me like a rock. He would pass me in the congregation. I still want to meetings after that for a little while. I’ll get into that but I had said passing in the Kingdom Hall and he passed right by me when I say a word and so that was really bad. My grandmother my grandmother the very next day or the day after the next day. Yeah. Because I told Mom one day and then the next evening was Tuesday we had our meeting. But she came up and she talked to us and everything. You know my grandfather didn’t. And so I went out to the car drove home. I had one more conversation get through. I told my parents that and we sat up I forget what time it was I know we went out to an early showing me and Trent because I had a lot to do that night. No surprise probably got home around 738 some like that.

[00:32:15] And we sat up till ten thirty probably a night talking about it and I was present my arguments and I pulled out my my envelope I still had and and showed him all the arguments we were looking up scriptures and everything as to as to what I’d found and whatever and they didn’t believe they believe anything I said you know my mom my mom for a good month and a half two months she thought there was something else up. She thought I did something else that may have made me want to leave. I wasn’t I wasn’t leaving because I knew it wasn’t the truth. You know I can leave for doctrinal Propp but um yeah. And so then we went to bed and I I can’t remember what the next day I did. I know I stayed up a little while I know I was up for a while that night but my at my parents were kind of like on their tippy toes you know they were kind of like touchy around me you know they were mad. They were just like you know there’s a problem that I can’t think of a term but they were cautious around me you know try not trying not to upset me or trip me or not. I wasn’t really pissed off or anything I just it was different after that. And so for the next month and a half or not a month and a half maybe the next month every week at least four or five times a week we me and my parents would stay up and I’d tell them I didn’t have a job at this point. I had quit with the construction company full of witnesses I was with because you know I knew I wouldn’t have a job there after I left. Um did I want to have that kind of conflict for them. So I had all the time in the world.

[00:34:04] I wasn’t pioneering anymore because you know that’s all up that’s all out the window. So all I was doing my dad downloaded watched our library which I still have on my laptop and all I did all day was watch debates and look up stuff on watched our library for weeks four weeks I did that and eventually I got into looking more in evolution. I really got into it and really got a better understanding of it so that I could argue and debate with people about it. But like I said earlier my friend Trent he went home and his dad was an elder a big a big wing arrogation and he called my dad. And Larry was his name. My dad’s name is James. Larry called my dad James and they Larry said he’d get another brother in the current station and they’d sit down they talk of me and so basically we picked a date and I went to the Kingdom Hall and we just talked everything I’d come up with you know a little more stuff that I’d come up with since I told everybody because I was doing so much research. Yeah this is this is probably around the end of December. I sat down with Larry and Monty in the congregation during our congregation library and we just talked about everything. I had looked up and there they were going through the normal routine that these two brothers they are not they’re not knowledgeable in evolution and stuff like that. They’re not trying to. Sorry not arguing with me. They were trying to help me come to a better understanding. And we’re looking at different scriptures and whatnot.

[00:35:54] Basically they didn’t convince me of anything. I told my mom I said if they convinced me. You know if they can change my thinking then that’s fine I’ll come back. But right now I’m like No I I don’t think this is the truth. And so I went and I went into those meetings with an open mind. The first meeting they didn’t really convinced me at all they said they’d do their own research and they’d come back and we had a second meeting. And that meeting got pretty heated because I that was probably like two weeks later I had been doing more research. Totally different subjects. Now I was really switch it up on and we had our second meeting and by the end of it they took away my kingdom Auchi which I had a key workingmen’s. They took that away and I bet they would have disfellowshipped me there. That’s how angry they were that we were yelling says you get pretty heated. But both of those meetings were about four hours long. Four and a half hours long. But again I had nothing better to do. This was on my break between semesters and I didn’t have a job. But then come the next semester next semester starts I have new classes and whatever. And I think Larry got in touch with a certain overseer or somebody did. And the circuit overseer he handpicked a brother from the circuit to kind of handle my case. His name’s Fred and he’s he’s pretty smart. He’s younger than the other guys. He’s probably about 55 or something. Somewhere around there a lot more knowledgeable.

[00:37:31] He’s done a lot more research on this kind of stuff. And he always gave great talks. The Sergant assembly but Fred was kind of in charge of my case and he picked another brother and we’re going to have another meeting and we did. And we talked about and love it. And mind you I had looked up by this time no apostate information. I was still working on the Bible. You know why the Bible is wrong. I was looking up you know some Bible stories contradictions between the Matthew Mark Luke and John. You know and Paul is a counselor tons of contradictions in there and historical contradictions between accounts in the Bible and what actually happened. Right six or sevenB.C. that’s bullshit umB.C. but yeah. So basically I went into that meeting and that was right. That was I think that was a Tuesday night. And we basically had to cut it short because or end ended because there was going to be the meeting. That was a good four and a half hours long. And I was basically hitting them with everything. Evolution contradictions in the Bible. Pyramids Noah’s Ark Noah’s flood and all that. And he actually came out of that meeting confused because the brother gave me some videos to watch. They weren’t Jehovah’s Witnesses videos. Believe it or not they were actually movies that were made by other religious groups about these kind of subjects and why evolution is wrong. Yeah. On YouTube that I came out of that meeting confused because I thought it explains some other stuff that I had problems with.

[00:39:16] I kinda figured that all of that would clear up once I did more research cause you know I just went home I looked up some of the things that they said and it wasn’t entirely accurate. I watched the videos the brother told me to watch. And it wasn’t really the stuff they said on evolution so long then joked debunked Jaso by then I’d had three meetings all being about four hours long and now at this point I felt comfortable. I said to myself Alright I think I’m going to start looking up stuff on Jehovah’s Witnesses. That’s when shit hit the fan. That’s when I got really pissed off really ticked off at this religion. I wasn’t mad at them I thought I actually told the brothers I still believed if the Bible were correct that this was the best religion to be and I actually told them that and I know I felt the sting of those words later on. But after those three meetings I started looking up you know. Child abuse among Joe’s witnesses blood transfusions. One of the things that really got me is how much they flip flopped on organ transplants blood transfusions blood fractions. The thing that really hit me was beards you know I mean why can’t I have a beard you know. So I started looking all this stuff up and me and Fred we had a conversation over the phone about child abuse and how the organization handles child abuse. This is really what took me off that and probably how many people have died from not having blood transfusions and I think I think our conversation on the phone is probably like an hour and a half about it.

[00:41:10] But I had excerpts from the elders book Shepherd the flock of God book and I knew they were accurate. The ones I had found out the PDAF because my dad was at work and I got I was able to get to his bag and I found a shepherd with a flock of God book and actually looked a Narron and checked it. So I knew they were accurate. I knew I could trust the version I had. And you know the policies their bullshit on and on how Jehovah’s Witnesses treat child abusers and that they actually get away. And I want to be a police officer now. So like that really irks me that cause all my life I had believed that Jehovah’s Witnesses have better morals in the world and they handle situations better than the world. But here here this worldly judicial system that we’re under in the United States handles child abuse better than better than the truth than God’s organization. You know that that really took me off. And by this point or maybe a little later I decided I want to be a police officer. Now I’d always wanted to be a police officer if I wasn’t a JOAs witnesses there. If I wasn’t a Jones witness either that or the Air Force fighter pilot. So we had our conversation on the phone and then talked to my parents and together they kind of orchestrated this idea. And now mind you I’m in college. You know I have my own schoolwork and my parents and Fred came up with the idea of giving me a paper assignment.

[00:42:46] They want me to write a paper on why Jehovah’s Witnesses believe they gain a few topics to cover why they believe what they do on a set of certain topics. Right. And. And they wanted me to reference articles from the Watchtower Library and whatnot and it’s supposed to be however long they wanted a reference page. You know they wanted the whole nine yards. I was like No this is unofficial. I’m not doing any kind of style. I should have my own stop. I’ve got my own work in school to do. But I did do the paper and by this time I was actually talking to a girl in Brooklyn. I was you know being a Jehovah’s Witness and losing your entire social network I had to revert to online dating and know anybody that I was talking to this girl in Brooklyn and very pretty. She is a Seventh Day Adventist but I was kind of sharing with you know could you do your own research. Her name was dorso. Could you do your own research Durso if you wanted to. You’re allowed to go to college they’re encouraged to go to college. They do a lot more humanitarian work for any type of people not just Joves Wences just kind of comparing things. And so what I learned from Torsella I actually put my paper.

[00:44:09] I compared the two religions and it was I think was like a a four page paper or a six page paper and two thirds of it was or a third of it was what Jehovah’s Witnesses believe lie and then the rest of it was why they’re wrong on them which was not which was not what the assignment was and that actually spurred my judicial committee meaning and I actually told him in the judicial committee meeting that this is not to be used as evidence in my meeting because I knew it was going to happen. You know it was bound to happen. I just told him this does not be used as evidence. This is just you know you sign this and I’m giving it to you to how I want it. And he actually actually told me he’s like why would you give this to me if it’s not to be. It’s in your judicial committee meeting which took me back a little but you kept his word he didn’t use it whenever that came around. But that kind of sparked that kind of sparked. Yeah. My judicial meeting sometime in February like mid February mid to end February I can remember the day I remember when I told my parents but I never took note of what day I decide to leave. We had the judicial meeting and I knew there’d be three elders right. I know it’ll be a long meeting. I put together an entire outline of all the things I was dedicated to covering in this meeting because I wanted I just wanted it kind of from my own records what was going on. So I made an outline and I went. I pulled into the driveway and there’s four cars. So there were actually four elders at my judicial meeting. All four elders that were kind of in my case and I went in and the judicial meeting lasted like 4 1/2 hours.

[00:46:15] Play as long as the other ones I think I know it wasn’t four and a half. It was almost four sorry. We talked about everything pretty much. You know we had already covered evolution and all that and that’s kind of the things those are kind of things that Fred really Fred was the leader of the room he really didn’t want to talk about those he wanted to talk about child abuse and why it felt that way. I was I was giving them scenarios like this we’re talking about child abuse a lot and how they handled it. I knew regardless of what they said. I knew what could happen with the current policies. You know they were trying to cumbered up and say you know it’s all good. You know not covering up the like. Soften it. You know it’s all good. You know we handle it appropriately and everything by it. I was given them scenarios like OK what ifs what if a man abused as a child here in this area and it comes out to the elders and because they’re saying how you know the elders will watch him. We’ll keep an eye out for make sure he’s not around any other kids. And but you know the police wouldn’t be notified if that wasn’t the law. And I just told them you know if a bit comes out of the elders that a man around here abused just a joke was when his child. They keep it under wraps day. And if it wasn’t a law around here I think MPW is the law. I’m not sure I looked that up at the time.

[00:47:46] But if wasn’t the law and it wasn’t brought to the police there’s no way you could watch him. He could. What if he moved to West Virginia or anywhere else in the States you know. He’s out of your purview. You could be anybody in the community. He could be could do anything else outside of your watch. And they were silent. Like they had nothing to say to that. I was completely owning the room but of course I was 41. You know they could they could interrupt me and they couldn’t you know literally blast me with all this information and I get to cover one thing they say. So who’s kind of an even in that way but I had an outline of what I want to talk about. And we talked about it and I brought all all the evidence I gathered. I had a giant folder. Man I had a tax record for the organization. I had I had proof that they were they were they had stocks in Boeing and Honeywell and these war machines right. You know I had I had stuff like that that I kind of I didn’t bring that up I don’t think because that’s not that’s kind of like information for me. No elders can take that and be like Oh you’re right. But I had run out of of the ship in the Fluck. They got a ship with the flock guidebook that I brought with me and Larry he’s sitting in there he’s like how do you get these. How do you get these. And I’m like Larry they’re on line there. They’re so easy to get. It’s unreal. Yeah. That they disfellowshipped me.

[00:49:21] They actually asked me to leave the room. It was so long are my judicial meeting. We had a bathroom break out there. Yeah. Now is a roomful older people so you know Blatters gets strained by 65. So you know obviously that would have happened but that’s how long it was. We had a bathroom break and then we came back we talked more and they told me leave. And it was like five minutes it took them five minutes. Like I thought it took them five minutes to make that. And I didn’t know what I was thinking. You know I actually came to the room was like wow five minutes night I thought it through in five minutes Xscape I got disfellowshipped for apostasy. Now what they got me on. They didn’t have anything on me except a Facebook post I posted to my friends and I made it public. Basically the title of the little blurb was I’m sorry again. And I guess I was kind of like an open letter to any girlfriends I had. Basically just telling them sorry for how big of a prick I was and how religious I was to them and whatever. And I didn’t name Jehovah’s Witnesses. And I didn’t name the organization. But I just said you know sometimes those kind of things rule your life. And I’m sorry that I was that way in school. That’s what they got me on. You know he kept his word he didn’t use the paper that I wrote against me because I made him not.

[00:51:01] But yeah they got me all one Facebook post and I got the sash of her posse. They would’ve gotten me on something else had it not been a Facebook post. After I got back after they told me you know what disfellowshipping you and I laughed. I gathered up all my evidence. Put it in a bag. I had to go to work that night because I was working third shift. So that’s how my night when nobody at work knew I made sure nobody at work knew I wasn’t what was previously Jehovah’s Witness for a while because I just went to see how I could interact with them. Without them knowing that and then I told them and you know they were supportive. But yeah I had work that night. After that let’s see I had a job. So I was getting know good income. So in college you know I still had a life that I was trying to build after that I was still living with my parents. My parents were still talking to me. My sister was still talking to me by anybody outside of that house was not wouldn’t talk to me. I found out a little while later after after her my disfellowshipping had kind of spread out among the circuit because I can only imagine it was kind of a shock because it came out of nowhere. You know it wasn’t like I stopped attending meetings. It was like in fact I was still attending meetings up until probably the second meeting I had with the elders. So I was still I was still kind of keeping up the facade.

[00:52:39] Among the people they didn’t know I was still I still my duties like at the time I was in charge like magazines. I wasn’t in charge of literature. I wasn’t I wasn’t in charge of literature. I was Arja territories and stuff like that. That’s right. That’s another fun fact. Before I left. Me and Trent we redid the territory for a congregation and I think even at the tail end like like even when I knew I wasn’t going to be a Jehovah’s Witness anymore I was still working on redoing the territory for the congregation faithfully you know doing them right just for them. Right. And so I still kind of had that I was still doing that even after even after the first meeting with the olders they kind of took that away with me from a pretty quick I couldn’t comment at the meeting or anything. Do any of that you know they said you’re not gonna do that. I paid attention more than ever before. You know at what the Jones what they were saying and I was looking to all of our scriptures than ever before but yeah they announced my disfellowshipping and my mom was like hey do you want to come with us. See it. I was like why would I do that. They’re basically executing me publicly. And I did tie into the meeting and a fun little story a few years before that I’d gotten training on handling sound right. And we had the whole tie in system and everything and you had to enter codes and dial a certain number to set it up and everything. And I was at home because I was you know quote unquote sick.

[00:54:26] And I went to stay home and my mom was with me. I was that young and we we’re going to die in a meeting and I typed in a phone number and then I entered the code for the sound system at the Kingdom Hall and so we were not only tied in the meeting but we were also broadcasting. So throughout the entire meeting anybody else tied in with us while we were at home were we’re hearing what we’re doing and we’re baking cookies. So yeah. So I. So I knew the code for that and everything. And so I tightened from my disfellowshipping using the broadcasting code and I muted myself. I didn’t I couldn’t I didn’t know what the tie in code was for just real listening. I couldn’t remember but I had that memorized and and I got disfellowshipped. It was I was kinda irritated with Larry because Larry announced it and there were like three announcements that night. And you know whatever was before it. And then Larry’s like and Caleb Tanner is no longer want to Jonas witnesses. On a brighter note like that’s how quick or quick it was like I said I’d put it. I got a little pissed off about that and I’m listening in. And that’s when the song comes around and I forget it was before the song or after the song I unmuted myself. And I said well there you have it folks or Shotton Snoddy you know I I wasn’t going to rock it for everybody or I did. I wasn’t going to come back on me.

[00:56:04] I you know wrecked a meeting for anybody tyddyn but that’s kind of like a fun thing for myself I could have done some Yes I just went through life there after that and it was I got back in touch with Austin. He’s my roommate because we really weren’t talking there after we graduated. We’re friends best friends in high school but we really didn’t talk after we graduated. And so we hung out some more. And I think we even went to the movies for like first time ever. I before before I left before I told my parents my grandparents my best friend that I no longer want to be a Joe was when I got back in touch with a girl named Sam and she her family is Joves on Ness’s she’s my age. She’s exactly six months older than me. She. But she went to meetings you know she kind of embraced it there for a while but then she kind of faded out and I stopped talking to her but I got back in touch with her again and so I was talking to her at the time. And I later texted her like we met and I didn’t tell her I didn’t want to be. Jones was a witness anymore. Then I texted her later hey you know I’ve made this decision. She kind of freaked out. It was a cool moment. But so I was I was kind of hanging out with her over the summer and sometime around August. And I we get back together and then Austyn I I kind of like Tolstoy was like hey what do you think about us moving in together.

[00:57:42] And he was up in Wilkes-Barre Scranton area which is like northeast about northeast of the state and he was at college there and he was I wasn’t really an option because you know I’m going to be going to college up there. But then like a week a week and a half later he text me back he’s like Hey call me. And we talked about just about moving in together. And he picked a college out near Pittsburgh for a reason aviation because the school he was out was so expensive and so he liked that and he was like think about it you know about moving out and being roommates. I was like oh wow that’s a big deal you know. But long story short I mean we decide to move out and we’re living our own some things I’ve learned since I left. People are evil people are worldly people are the world is not controlled by the devil you know what the world would be a very different place if it was you know Satan is not the root of the system of things. I was working at Frito-Lay when I left. And they’re so supportive there. I was told I was. I was so annoying. I was telling them all these different plans I had. And then a week later I’d tell them about different plans I’d made because you know I felt differently at that time a week to week. My plans changed and they were so supportive and I’d tell them everybody by the time I left everybody knew I had to leave because you know I moved by it.

[00:59:24] By the time I left everybody knew my shift and everybody was so supportive about it and I basically just found out that people are loving you know I can I can form lasting friendships with someone who’s not a job as witness. And people can have their own beliefs and their own feelings on things and that’s fine. I don’t have to shove my own beliefs down their throat. You know I don’t have to try and convince them I mean I’m open to a TV debate on any subject with anyone at any time but that doesn’t mean I should fight. I just learned that that I can be friends with with people that are not Jehovah’s Witnesses and that the world is a much better place than I thought it was. People are doing good things. You know the world is pretty fucked up by it. It’s not as bad as I thought it was. There’s there’s still hope. You know I’m an atheist. I don’t believe there’s a God if there is that be great. I really hope there’s an afterlife. That would be awesome. But if there isn’t. You know I’m I’m ready for that there’s a lot of things I enjoy about this life being free to talk to anybody I want to without bringing up Bosche Arawak that’s nice that I can pursue what I want to do. So I went to a police officer right. That’s fun. I mean I’m not saying being a police officer is always fun but like that’s fun pursuing something I really wanted to do. I wanted to I wanted to go to trade school in mechatronics degree because I wanted to do something that was kind of interesting when I was at Bethel.

[01:01:16] Yeah I was kind of really rooting for a position as a mechanic at walking for the printing department or or one of those traveling brothers that goes around and helps mean it’s for kingdom halls or being part of a permanent. It’s not called the RBC anymore whatever it is. I came here. I should know that I should know that because I’m under a year out. Right. Right. I don’t. But yeah I enjoy I enjoy the freedoms I have now and I’m actually going to basic training for the army here in January. I’m excited for that. I’m excited to join to get into the army. I kind of always wanted to be in the military. I thought that would be kind of cool. In contrast to my grandfather who you know didn’t want to be a soldier he wanted to be a construction worker worker but different stripes different folks whatever. But I’m just excited for the life ahead and for the friendships I’ll have. I enjoy living on my own relatively I mean I have a roommate that was on our own a whole new area a whole new. A whole new life. I mean don’t get me wrong I’m incredibly lonely. I mean when I’m home alone like I’ve been home alone for the past I don’t know. My roommate went to work at 2:00 for the past couple of hours. You know I had really nothing to do and it’s really lonely. And I expected to be lonely for quite awhile because you know when your whole social network goes down you’re going to be lonely.

[01:03:05] So don’t get me wrong I do get depressed sometimes but I know that’s not going to be that way forever. That’s that’s the other thing I learned. Life isn’t fair you know and nor is it nor is it going to be in the future. I mean that’s I had to grow up quick from who I was relying on my parents. You know I was making when I was working for that construction group I was working with I was only work and one day a week I’ll get like 60 bucks every week. And maybe 60 bucks a paycheck. I can’t even remember. So I was kind of relying on my parents a lot and going from that to telling my parents I don’t want to be a JOAs witness anymore. My mom’s like OK we need to sign your car over your name a little while later and you need to start thinking about after you graduate getting your own apartment. Like they started they started kind of you know get ready for us to push you out. And so you had to grow up quick. And when I say when I say I was at work telling them about a new plan each week I have a new plan every week. Nothing has been stable in my life for the past year. So I’ve had to come up with something new. Pretty much every week or every other week I see. You learn to grow up quick and you learn the minimum of course on my bragging or anything by it. I am not the man I was in early November I asked last Urla last November. I’m not the man I was entirely mad of my childhood.

[01:04:57] I’m not I’m not entirely angry with this entire situation. You know it sucks. You know it’s not right but I wouldn’t want to be anybody different. You know I’ve been through. I’ve you know before before I got out. No I could look at my grandfather. He was in Vietnam OK. And and he he is such a character right. I mean he’s funny he’s kind of funny. He’s kind of a jackass. But he is just his own person and everybody respected him for that. And then my dad he’s kind of his own person. He’s I mean he’s made his own you know made it into his own. But I wasn’t necessarily I was kind of living in their legacy. I was kind of living under them. So once I left I had something you know I mean it’s kind of a crazy something but you know that made me who I am. I mean that’s that’s a pro if anything of this whole situation. I’m I me I have mixed feelings about my family. I have mixed feelings. Well that’s pretty much it. I have no feelings when it comes to those in a creation I was with. They’re fine. They’re finally in their old life. That’s fine. I mean I miss them but I’m kind of angry at my family. I mean of course I mean this this you know early molten stage. You know I just got out by it. So I I can be a little angry but I mean if I could say things to them I don’t know what I’d say to my family.

[01:06:50] I now I’m in contact with my aunt. Her name is Lydia and she basically went through everything I did although in voluntarily she got disfellowshipped for something a long time ago and we actually stopped talking to her. I remember that I was I was younger and I had no understanding that but we actually stopped talking to her and um my grandfather did to my grandfather cut off his own daughter. So to my grandmother. So did my dad who’s her brother. We all just cut her off. My mom has never liked her. So I mean she knows my my aunt knows that too. That’s first thing we talked about was my mom and we got together. But having done that twice my my aunt got disfellowshipped and then she got reinstated and my family talks to her every once in a great while. And I don’t know if I’d say anything to them. I think it’d be really awkward if me and my parents started talking again and I think I just cost my grandfather out if I saw them again because for him to do that to cut off my aunt his own daughter and then bring her back into his life. He told me she has a kid. He’s 11. OK. And my grandfather told me he said the only reason we still talk to Lydia is because of her kid. We’re hoping that maybe something will click with him and he’ll become a Joves witness. That’s the only reason they talked to. And at all it’s despicable. And at the time I was like Yeah that makes sense that that’s how indoctrinated I was.

[01:08:51] You know that’s yeah that makes sense. You know I mean I had always viewed my aunt as some type a rebel you know a rebel that that I don’t know just a person that we only talk to when we had to right. And and now I think back that I told my aunt this that I told my aunt when my grandfather had said that you know she should know now. And I just would cost him out if I ever saw him again. For him to do that and bring her back and then drop me like a rock. After I told him I didn’t want to be a Joe’s witness he didn’t talk to me. Not a single word. I don’t know what his reasoning on that was maybe thought maybe I’d come back to him you know by just just for him to do that just ticks me off. My my grandmother I have a lot more respect for my grandmother than when she first all she actually talked to me afterwards. But she came up to me. I was still going to meetings. She came up to me probably after the first meeting with the lawyers and she she just told me like you know choose the best way you know choose the truth. And then she cried and she hugged me you know and you know I there were times during that whole experience that I felt unsure about myself. That maybe I had gotten it wrong. Maybe they do the truth. You know I was I was second guessing myself.

[01:10:37] And there were there was a time even when I was like Alright my mom for a for like two months after I told them that I wanted to leave my mom cried every other day probably. So there was a time where like my mom’s out in another part of the house crying and my dad kind of doing his own thing and I’m just like maybe I want to come back just to get her to stop crying just to get him to stop feeling that way. The only thing that the only thing that kept me in was that Caylee and I had had sex and I knew that if I came back and if I had if I had just given up all the research I was doing and just accepted that this was the truth I would have to tell the owners that we had sex that would all come out. And I’m going to be honest with that because you know and people can say whatever they want. OK. Well there you go. You left because you would have been disfellowshipped for fornication or whatever but that’s that’s the one thing that kept me from breaking down at that one moment at just to get my mom to stop crying. Now I’m living on my own. I have a job I’m paying my own bills paying my own rent. I’m looking for a career in law enforcement a career in the army you know I’m on my own. You know I have a relationship with my aunt side of the family that I’ve never really had a relationship with. They’re up in New York State and I have a relationship with my uncle on my mom’s side.

[01:12:34] Someone we haven’t talked to each other in person in quite a while but over Facebook and so I’m I mean I’m pretty good. Like I said I’m. I get lonely but I’m not. I’m certainly better than I was when I was a Joves when US and I don’t mean I don’t mean in regards to being happy or something. I mean I was I was happy when I was Johs when as you know ignorance is bliss. But but I’m I feel better about the person I am. And I know more about myself than I ever have. At 19 you know because I’ve been through you know what I’ve been through. I want to be a state trooper or work at the FBI I’d be kind of cool or some other federal like the DEA or ATF. Yes I’m like that unless I really like the military. I’m going in for military police. And by the time I get active duty because I’ll be go on. I’ll be going for training and I’ll come back in the reserves. I’m going to finish up a bachelors degree and then I’m gonna go active duty I’ll be an officer then. So I might just do that for the rest of my life if I like it. I don’t know. But yeah either state trooper or a big city likeL.A. or something like that or you know FBI you know some federal but you know I’m planning to make the most of it make the most of my life and do something that I can be proud of. That’s kind of why I’m joined the military.

[01:14:10] That’s kind of why I want to be a police officer something be proud of something that my kids can look up to me and be proud of me. And you know maybe they can kind of do what I’m doing or do their own thing. You know they’re free to do whatever but do something I can be proud of and respect myself for something that’s involved with my community and helping other people. So the song I picked a little more by machine gun Kelly there’s a line in it that he says it’s my favorite line and all the rap I’ve listened to he says they told me fight night I’m supposed to lose. So from my understanding boxing matches sometimes were fixed. And so this is kind of a callback to that. And that’s that’s my favorite line all rap because they told me that you know without Jehovah’s Witnesses what am I. You know that’s how I felt for a long time. And so you know that line they told me fight night I’m supposed to lose I’m not losing where I’m mad. You know I’m I’m in a better place. So in just a few weeks on January 20 30 Caleb was leaving for basic training. He’s chasing his goals joining the army and without any support from his immediate family. So go to shunnedpodcast.com click on episodes find Caleb’s episode here and you can leave a comment under his episode of encouragement. Now for a special announcement I recently recorded the story of David which will be our episode for February. However it’s going to be a little different. It’s also very involved. It’s quite a heavy story and it’s very raw at times.

[01:16:09] There was a lot to cover and the issues that were covered are very important particularly that sexual abuse with everything that’s going on within Jehovah’s Witnesses today with the two witness rule with the Australian Royal Commission and everything. So this is going to be more than one episode released one week after another in February. It’s also going to be released as a conversation between him and I see this as a very important episode. I encourage you to spread the word to other ex Jehovah’s witnesses or people who are shunned. Anyone that you think might be interested in learning how this how this aspect of things works within the organization. Additionally you know I just think that people need to hear this episode period. And so I encourage you to subscribe. That way you’ll get the next episodes automatically you won’t have to wait for maybe me to release an announcement on some site that you visit to see that is out. Please go ahead and subscribe. That way you’ll get them automatically. And you know I’m not going to make you wait. You know one episode of the beginning of February like I usually do and in one at the beginning of March or something like that I’m going to go ahead and release this story one part at a time I’m not sure how many it’s going to break down into as I edit it I’ll find out but it will be multiple parts and I’ll go ahead and release part one. You know one week in February and part two the next week. So that’s it’s not overwhelming but also so that you don’t have to wait to get the rest of the story.

[01:17:53] So I encourage you to do that. I hope that everyone is having a happy new year. You know we’re all trying to live life in this new world. Those of us who are shunned and I’ll see you in the next episode.