Episode Two – Jerry is shunned by the Mennonites

Jerry The ex-Mennonite – Full Episode.mp3

[00:00:14] Welcome to shunned the monthly podcast where we expose the religions that use shunning as a method to coerce and control. These are real stories as told by the person that lived them telling these stories takes courage and the strength to be vulnerable. After this week’s episode I encourage you to go to shun podcast dot com and leave a message for the person that told their story by commenting on their episode. I’ve told mine and it means a lot to hear from people that can relate. Each person will be able to read and respond to your messages of encouragement. And now let’s listen to this month’s real life story of being shown. My name is Jerry. I’m 38 years old. I was a Holleyman man and I mean I am shom. I was raised in a hole in a church by my parents and I was a toddler. Our church was the only true church. My grandparents on both sides raised Irish and joined the Holman’s when they were adults. It’s interesting to note that they are shunned by the Irish for joining the Mennonites Fishell they are the whole of the church. His Church of God in Christ Mennonite two and a half years ago I and my wife made the decision to take the baby and leave everything familiar that we knew only lie outside. We knew that we would be shunned and misunderstood. Our lives would never be the same but we reached a point where we could no longer stay I’m the oldest of four children two boys and two girls. My earliest memories are in Nigeria Africa when I was 3 years old.

[00:02:07] My parents volunteered to go to the mission in Nigeria. We were there for two years then and then for two more years. When I was we lived in a bush village. My dad’s job was to help with the church plant there. I remember going to church with my dad teaching the natives children songs like This Little Light of Mine running over. Building up the temple. I remember driving through the village in our car and the Native children running alongside the cars shouting my name. My life was very sheltered and I felt cared for and safe. When I was nine years old I noticed what the preacher was preaching for the first time I heard him talk about how and how if we were born again that we would or Sarkin for the time that it made me I was going to hell if I didn’t repent and get born again tell my mom about what I was feeling. She told me that I should pray confess my sins and give my heart. I did what she said but nothing happened. It was just kind of like trying to do it. I felt very painful for several weeks. One day I got so sick of it. I went and prayed really in desperation and it all left. I felt for peace. I knew I was forgiven and that I was saved. I immediately told my parents they were silent all the preachers about it. We were still in Nigeria at that time. Several of them visited with me and asked me what happened so I was happy to tell them all about it.

[00:03:52] I overheard them telling my parents that even though I was so young they could tell it was the real thing. I felt like a celebrity. We went back to the States soon after that it was a real adjustment. Peering back to the states trying to fit in our church Birdsell store. All the other kids were good at softball and had their own jokes and I wasn’t I couldn’t even catch a ball. I felt a shame that the next summer my dad played catch with me almost every evening I got along. Bird softball I was baptized into the church when I was 10 years old. I was very excited and enthused. They take it very serious that since they are the Trucha. They want to be sure that no one is exempt from membership unless they have actually repented and been born again. It wouldn’t do to baptize someone the expert bird just made it up because then that would defile the church. So I had to sit in a visit with a staff of ministers and deacons and tell my story about how I got saved. Once they proved that I had really been saved and that it was genuine time I experience in front of the church for the Brotherhood’s true that was done with my story. The congregation was free to ask me any questions and ask whether I had truly met the law. I remember that it was quite scary but exhilarating experience. After person I was baptized by pouring water on my head and then I was a member for life and right all the ordinances of the church as long as I was faithful.

[00:05:49] By that time my dad had been made a minister so he was the one about ties. I remember he decided soon after peace with God told me that now that I was a Christian it read my Bible every day. Pray when I get up before I go to bed. I try to read my bible couldn’t really get anything out of it. I think I was young enough and simply carried no interest to me. As a 10 year old my main concern was being well liked in school getting my schoolwork done as quickly as possible and having fun with my friends. We never mix with people outside of our denomination. I want to give you a little picture of what my life was like. We had no TV or radio or any recorded music of any Christian or not Christian as the church had decided the General Conference that the recorder would simply read people away from God and not lead to greater depth of Christianity. We didn’t go to public places fairs in parks water parks we didn’t go to the zoo as that was looking for animals that are God’s creation. We were not allowed to take any pictures of anything or our homes addresses and round black head coverings for women to wear pants was considered models might cause the man who lost in sin. We never saw him before but I’m terribly fascinated.

[00:07:25] Whenever we were in a department store or an airplane where a movie was playing I counted my lucky to use musical instruments with pride for not beneficial so they were rah all our singings Rockapella young people are allowed to join the youth group when they turn 15 or 16 in their car car organized youth activities we sing at nursing homes once or twice a month went Christmas caroling at Christmas and played a lot of volleyball whenever we got the chance. Yes the girls played volleyball in their cars white dresses and we considered it very long. Holdeman young people do a lot of travelling around the states to different congregations for words. That is how they get to know a lot of people. Make friends all over the country. The young people were not allowed any courtship were dating before marriage. In fact they called Gorshin Khan a version. It was often talked about how carnal courtship would lead to immorality and so it must be avoided. Deciding who to marry. Very spiritualize. It was one of my mom’s favorite topics when growing a beer during a beer is mandatory for the men as that is how God created you. When a young man wants to get married he should pray and ask God for a wife and then God would start to leave his heart to a particular young lady. I can’t say this is exactly how it is for everybody in that denomination. I was taught that it would be wrong for me to show that girl that I’m interested in her I should be friendly to keep a proper space. When I felt led then I should talk to my sister about it. He would interview me to see if I was living right or not masturbating or looking at porn and then asked his approval. He would give a phone call to the girls Minister if she happened to live in a different congregation.

[00:09:39] Per minister felt that she was in a good place spiritually. He would approach her dad that her dad was okay with it. He would ask her if she would like to marry such and such as he is asking for your hand in marriage. So she did everything right. God was in it she would say yes. And then you would get engaged and live happily ever after. This spiritual way is what the church saw as was so much safer than the worldly way where people just go out and seek whoever they choose and try out different partners to see which one they like. Our education consisted of going to the 8th grade and higher education was discouraged. Any time anyone would want to something out of the ordinary. They would get discouraged and shut down. Phrases like well there may not be anything wrong with it but why would you want to be different than the brother. This has to be from theory made so uncomfortable for you not just by the leadership but by others. It was all just easier to blend in this time that we were told many times that a Christian needs to lose his identity and just be one with the church and the brethren. Where I’m going with this is to show how everything was done to keep us from us. Sinning. Keep us safe and strong being influenced by the wrong we are expected to find jobs with manual labor either in the construction or farming industry. There were some that moved into more techie jobs like housing or computer software programming or manufacture.

[00:11:36] I want to tell you a little bit about how the church deals with Sandy since it was the true church. There was very important to keep keeper free from sin without spot and blameless when a member becomes under concern of the star. The staff would ask for a visit sometimes individually or sometimes as a group. The person would be asked to repent of their behavior. They had a car that was a little too flashy so they would be asked to get rid of the car and read part of the spirit of Christ. Or maybe this kind of started to break my heart. Maybe they were suffering with depression they would be asked to repent of not trusting God or having an independent spirit. They loved to come out with names and spirits that people had and label them that way such as critical spirit Forest Spirit independent spirit lustful spirit. Just a couple of them if that person were a man their ways they would be like a la however if that person wasn’t making any changes they would bring it to the congregation in a close. Members would present the case and how the person has been asked repat but no change has been forthcoming. So they would ask us as a congregation Jisa or formally asking that person to retire we will go in support by raising our hands at that point. That person was in quotation marks honorary tax a sort of uncomfortable place where everybody knew about your problem and you weren’t avoided or shun but you knew you had that coming. You didn’t get your act together. If you managed to have an experience or encounter with God and find repentance.

[00:13:33] Then you visited with the staff again for them to prove whether it was real. If they said it was then you had to get up a members meeting. Kind of like when you were originally baptized. Tell your experience again from the congregation you were subjected to questions from the congregation and they were asked to vote. Raising a class whether they thought you had truly repented. And if we could lift that retained stronger so great. We’re back in full fellowship if you are able to read time. Then eventually they would come to the decision to take you out of the church. Since there didn’t seem to be any way for you to repent in that year. I guess my impression was that sometimes you had sent bad enough that God can forgive you. I must you had been put outside the fold for punishment. Since you were being a defilement to the church then there were scenes that were called death since sins unto death and usually there was any kind of sexual sin like fornication adultery or even a heavy petting or masturbation or looking at harm which was called lasciviousness. These sins warranted immediate excommunication. Other scenes that fit in that category would be premeditated lying or getting drunk. They take that from the scripture in Galatians 5 19. Twenty one word less salt works of the flesh and says that basically in my words they do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. So since the scripture says that you can’t inherit the kingdom of God if you do those things you find yourself doing those things. You’re already lost and going to hell.

[00:15:30] And if you are lost and can’t be in the church that must be Deleware not going to keep the church your but so that you can repent. Many times I remember a members meeting being called on short notice that we would go with heavy hearts and dread. Sure enough someone had done something immoral and was wanting to get right so I confessed it to one of the ministers and it had to be taken out of the church as soon as possible. When the member’s case was brought up her exit communication they were bringing up in a closed members meeting they would say the reason for the case being brought up usually keeping the details to the man. They would tell us again the reasons that the scripture teaches for excommunication to deliver such an one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so as to save their soul. Yes that if we were in agreement that this brother or sister be severed from the fellowship that we should stand to our course we always did. We didn’t dare disagree. It was always a sad somber time with a lot of tears shed right there in church because now life would never be the same for that person. We were not allowed to shame and expelled persons who eat at the same table with we were supposed to still be friendly and you would have them over to our house for a meal if we wanted but just couldn’t shake their hands or eat at the same table.

[00:17:06] If you had them over for a meal the customer would be to set up a card table close to the main table and put the expelled person have that table. It was always very awkward and uncomfortable. This was considered necessary in order for that person to feel the love of the church and be drawn back to the fold. We were told that if we just treat them like normal they will have no motivation to repair logic never made sense to most of those people that I saw expelled would eventually actually come back repent of their evil ways and then go through that whole interview process again first with the state and with their congregations. And then they were reinstated to full fellowship. Everything was back to normal except there was this was considered a very normal way to help people who were struggling to be good Christians. We were told that other churches who don’t practice that are not true churches because they let just anybody into their church and there’s all kinds of immorality going on with no punishment or judgment. Most other Christians are simply just playing church and going to church on Sunday so they can feel better about themselves even though they’re living in San. So back to my store and this is where I get things I’m going to talk about hope that someone can relate to there some details here I’m not I don’t talk about. So back to my story. I was given very little sex education from my parents and as I entered puberty I found myself very curious and interested in girls and sex and wondered a lot about found myself masturbating for which I was very guilty and the shame.

[00:19:05] I knew that as a Christian that had to be wrong for me to do so I would confess it to my dad and he would tell me to tell God about it and repent and God would give me a victory to stop doing that. So that’s what I did. But it never helped. I just recently was telling a friend about it. He said Jerry that’s normal like boys do that. And I said Yeah I thought I was going to hell. Oh he said they put the fear of hell on you. No wonder you were always confessing right. Yeah. So I can’t even tell you the terror I lived in. Most of the time and the shame I knew I was going to hell repent and I’ll never to do that again. I would feel better for a few days or weeks or months that I would find myself at it again even though I knew it was going to send me to hell. I first discovered pornography when I was about 16 years old by finding your magazine Rodion. Of course I confessed to my dad and repented of it but it didn’t help inspire this sin that I couldn’t control. I attempted to keep my life looking very normal on the surface. I threw myself wholeheartedly into the church and participated in everything that I was allowed to when I was 17. I got feeling so bad way about my last problem. I finally opened up again to my dad. I wanted to get back to God know that I was going to have I wanted to stop my behavior. My dad felt they had gotten bad.

[00:20:52] He better talk about it to the other staff biffo that I would need to be expelled in order to repent and to keep it from being a blemish on the church. I felt so awful but I knew it was necessary because I trusted them and if they said it was necessary then it was true. I was so sincere even went to the meeting that they call that was a mistake. I don’t know if I’ll ever forget the burning shame I felt as I sat there and they told the congregation about my problem. I was excommunicated of course and I just wanted to get out of there. It was so awful. I was so desperate to be well thought of and popular the youth group. And here now I was labeled. I had to sit at a separate table now for the rest of my family. It was so mortifying. Fishing was so thick you could cut it with a knife. I remember going along with my parents and younger brother and sisters to people’s places for Sunday lunch after church and then put on a separate table. I was convinced that I was a monster and these horrible evil things that I did. Even though I didn’t want to I sure hope this was going to work because it was sure Kayangel now looking back I just wish so badly I could have had a dad that would have just sat with me and said oh help you work through this Jerry and not given me all that shame. After about three months of desperately praying and surrendering my life to God I felt like I had found peace and was forgiven and I was ready to start life a new man.

[00:22:33] I initiated meeting with the staff and went in so enthused about what I had found so excited to be able to finally get back in the church less actively and then sent me out of the room so they could talk. When they called me back and they told me I needed to find something more here. What I had was good but they weren’t sure I had truly seen my depravity how evil I was brewing pattern. That was a real blow. I don’t want to into all the details but after another month or so I was broken and shamed to the point that it felt like I came crawling back to them with my belly sliding on the ground. And I was accepted because going through the whole interview process. Life is pretty good then for several years I’ve just spent in my youth group work with my dad. Building houses. Well lots of trips to weddings made shrines. When I was 21 I went to Montreal for 6 months for volunteer service and that was a real highlight of my life. I worked at several hospitals soup kitchens and it was a new experience to. Every day with people that weren’t holdings to go in and I would take care down to have discussions with them. I had a volunteer coordinator at the hospital where we were she told me one dairy. One day she said Jerry said What do you mean. She said most of the Holleman boys are here are very good workers. But they’re like they just do what they’re told they’re very good at being doing what they’re told are very compliant she said.

[00:24:33] You think for yourself and you ask me questions and you question the process. She said You watch out you’re not going to stay all of them were for when I got back from Montreal I was 20 and just turned 21 and I’ve been doing a lot of praying about getting married. I was tired of the youth group bands. There was this girl that I had met four times over the years that started to come to my ha and it was Cathy. So I prayed about it and we went through that process like I described earlier I remember being hit with a real. Is this really going I know I’m better pray. I said God I think I want America. But is this really going to work. What is the wrong one. What if it’s just me and very clearly I heard him say. Trust me on this. This is going on we’re and then I had the courage to move forward. And believe it or not she said yes. So getting married with not really even knowing each other was a lot harder than I realized they would be. I had this glorious expectation that it was going to be all fireworks in love. There was actually a lot of confusion here disillusionment because we were just both really very immature broken people we just didn’t know where and a lot of questions or questions and answers. But we both get nervous and make a life together. We had our first child about two years three unmarried and two years later we had our second child and then five years later we had a third. They’re all we’re our girls.

[00:27:03] I participated myself to church in India were became song leader at church which was an honor to be ridging. I was a Sunday school teacher sometimes. I even got Sunday School superintendent which was in charge of every other Sunday morning to have the introduction to the Sunday School before everybody left for their classes I expected to get married would completely fix any signs any hole I would have to pornography or those kind of things and I would be having sex. Shinedown. That wasn’t the case. But three or four years after we were married I found myself looking at porn shorthair about a child like I was back to square one. So like I had to confess it. I told my wife about it and that was a real blow to her. I told her about some of the things I had struggled with as a youth and that was a blow. She was like Why did I know this. Before we got married. I don’t know why nobody ever wrote I struggled with that off and on over the years with finding myself wanting to look at porn again recanting. It started to feel like I was starting to get back into this cycle of looking at porn and tending to reassure her once or quieres and I always believed that when I did that there was something really really wrong with me. And now in 2012 to my wife that I was looking at porn and she got really upset and said I’m tired of this. I had to talk to somebody. So I encourage you to go talk to my daughter who was a virgin.

[00:29:19] So she talked to Gaver know how but just instead Amanda is going to have to mess with me. So talk to them and say you’re going to expel I said No I don’t think so I’m very rude then sorry. I want to be involved with this I don’t think it’s necessary. He full meeting with the other ministers and he said yes it is to care. So Star was very shameful. Barbara Bush was very cool. And after about three months I felt so kind of experience you regret and was re accepted. But I knew in my heart that nothing had changed in three months later I was right back into it. Worse than ever. For the next year. I just live in denial. I’m involved in photography at until finally my wife confronted me again and I admitted that there was stuff going on. She insisted that marriage was going to be over unless I would go talk to her dad about so we did. We met with her mom and dad and I just opened up to them. Her dad is the first person that ever opened up to that didn’t throw me under the bus and he said Jerry you need to get a Christian counselor. He said I’m not going to throw your stuff under the bus you don’t need to necessarily tell and you need to fight because she Kasler by the way is a hole he’s in the hole in church as well. That was the best advice I ever got in my life. I started counseling. Oh I thought I looked online for a local Christian counselor. We found a man that deals with these issues.

[00:31:46] First someone that was. He heard my story and he sent me and commended me for being open to him. And he said I have three questions for you you need to answer through Tsar what is my first free. I saw you and I had no idea. But I start to understand a whole host of things and how I learned about family roles. And most of those I knew that my role in my family abroad was the gold child my mom. I was my Moscow child and I started to see the pressure. I’ve always been ordered to live on to the. I started to see there. I had never really emotionally separated from my mom. And there messily her revolver on her was the way she was between me and my wife. This is 30 years into our marriage. I learned about identity and how it’s important for me to have an identity and that was new because in our church I was always taught that you shouldn’t have an idea of I started to meet with a man screw every Tuesday evening. The counselors are. I didn’t tell anybody. Is that what you got. By the way at this time I had brought it up to all the ministers and I’ve been excommunicated Yeah. So we were living. I was excommunicated and having been through that before with my wife and with my children. We had attempted to normalize and we had attempted to where people would invite us over we would go over.

[00:34:09] And it was so painful confusing for my children and for me to for me to have to sit at a separate table at this time. I was excommunicated we just said no we’re not doing that we’re not going to participate that bullshit. So we spent a year basically alone. And it was it was a years learning and growth for me as I sat in that men’s group of men that were not holding hands. There was a loose thread man there. There was a man that was Greek Orthodox. There was a man that didn’t go to church. There was a Catholic a Catholic guy there Presbyterian guy. And I just sat there and listened to them talk and they would be given opportunity to pray at the end of the meeting. And I remember thinking when I started you know it’s always what I’ve been taught. These people have been Christians but there. Their knowledge is limited. You know they don’t really have the whole knowledge of the truth. Why I do but as I heard them pray their hearts in this hall I started to see that they were real but they had. I don’t know how to explain like I said that I stop looking at myself as better than I had more knowledge. And then I could feel their heart and feel that we were we were brothers. Even if we didn’t go to the same church and that was a real that was a real crack cocaine my belief system visiting with them one night after the meeting. I remember two of them asked me Jerry why are you trying so hard. Because I want to be saved. I want to go to hell. Make sure that I repented.

[00:36:23] And one of them told me Jerry you don’t have to do anything. Jesus Naseri said and it hit me like a lightning bolt right there. How hard I have been working for Amoun salvation all my life. I knew right then there was forgiveness that I was saved. And I started to see God in a completely different way. Fast forward a couple months and one of my friends a hole in the ground reached out to me. He was the only person that reached out to me the whole year and we started to talk and share ideas experiences. He introduced me to a book by John Eldridge called Journey of desire and that was an eye opening book. John talks about how our desires are from God desire Shemar. The Bible does say in Proverbs keep your heart with all diligence proud of it. She’s alive. I’ve always been taught that my heart is evil. Better not trusting because Jeremiah as the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked but John Eldridge talks about how Christ gives you a new heart. That’s in the Bible too. But that’s never talked about. Oh we’re all I ever heard was about my evil heart. There are opened up a lot of desire for me. And a new way of thinking like really mean the desires that God has given me are actually shrunk down. I read a book called by John Mica acoustic called Searching for God talking about how I recommend it to anybody who struggles with pornography surfing for God what if when you’re surfing the Internet looking for pornography what you’re actually looking for is God.

[00:38:36] But your desires are actually good it’s just misdirected. My wife and I talk a lot about this. Gardner started to experience. And we started to question whether I even wanted to reapply for membership in the church I said no I want to give it one more try. I want to give it another chance. I don’t want to be expelled for phonography and then just leave and never come back. We’re going to leave to make a decision to leave. So in June 2002 team reapply for membership and was accepted. In that meeting where I was interviewed this attitude of mine was called out where we refused to participate in the shunning or their voices but just simply isolating ourselves and several people asked about that call me out on felt like they were telling me that I should have I should enjoy being stabbed in the back. There’s a a answer here against having the bad guys smile about it for you’re good and you need to enjoy it. I just simply basically lied and said I’m I support the church the stand with Lloyd Insys what it’s called avoidance. It’s a church and that’s their stand. But. And so I was re accepted and I walked out of church knowing that I was done here I was back in full fellowship knowing I was going to leave. I just didn’t know where. My wife was devastated too and she knew too that we were to leave and she did away. But we had a new house today also we threw ourselves into building a house and that kept us preoccupied.

[00:40:55] That fall later remember coming to the conclusion that we were going to have to leave. And I told God God I can’t leave until you show us where to go. And he said right back. He said no you have to leave first and then I’ll show you where to go. You have to trust me. So I felt like jumping off a cliff. When we did make that formal announcement in January 2015 there was a song that became very very meaningful to us. It’s called This Is The Time of super chicks and the phrase in the song this is the time when you fall you’ll find that you can fly. There’s a lot of hope. So we stepped out of that church not knowing. Knowing very few people I knew a few of the men I men’s group knowing very few people had no idea what life was going to be like that knowing that we were done with our lives just couldn’t handle it. And as I look back now two and a half years later it’s just simply amazing the people that God has brought into our lives. Only one word no where to go next. I’d like to talk about several things that really fall books that are meaningful Open starting to crack crack. The belief system back in 2001 when I had an employee who was 20 years old. He was a wild child. Had no interest in being a Christian. I thought he had no interest in being a hole. Work turned out to be. He was a good worker but he and his parents were older. But I know he slept around with high school girls. Knew Then he was in a bad place.

[00:42:59] And then one night in November got killed in a car accident when a drunk driver rear ended him devastation. Our experiences were so extreme because I knew he was lost going to hell because of his lifestyle. But then some things started to come out about him that I didn’t know and there was some visions that people had that were kind of strange like a complete stranger came up to them and found them later I was there at the at the accident scene and said that he had seen Jesus standing beside the car. Then talking to this friend of mine this employee advising was Chen. Our cousin Chet’s had this vision where he was walking along a road with Chad and he could see that chair was in a good place that he wasn’t and how and his girlfriend dead and gets favorite song was this song by this culture Your love never fails. And actually at the Holderman as your my cousin and his wife sang that song. Your love never fails without instruments they basically down the sea from just your friends and listen to it. Roll it out and sing it out. That song moves me so much because I could tell them Well I actually when I was disobedient to the church and by the sightings and listened to it. And to me this was a rock band evil. And yet there were singing this song that talked about a guy and it just blew my mind like how could how could somebody actually be truly doing God if they’re not holding hands in Gisli mind didn’t know how to process that.

[00:45:10] It started crack going up releases the meter reader and John Eldridge wrote this book Journey of desire a suspension and then I read Wild at Heart which is about a man’s heart. How the church shames a man and keeps him subdued and all the frustration that brings. And I started to see that I was looking to my wife for my validation rather than to other men and to God and to myself. Henry Cloud blog Country Club material as well learned a lot of relationship stuff that I understand. The frustrating thing with all the self-improvement that I was doing a lot of this was over that year when I was expelled was I knew that this was helping me that it would be discouraged by the church. That just brought a lot of frustration and anger. There’s there’s a song that hit me really hard one day when I listened to it called what love really means by a holler talks about being like it’s the reason the song is Hulot me for me I realize that I had no memory of being. Just for me. It’s all like I was loved for what I’ve benefited my mom my dad and love based on my performance I’m feeling a little frustrated by what I would like to be able to do is logically give you all these things like this and this and this is why. We knew we had to leave and this and this and this is all new things that I’ve discovered. I’m finding out that I’m more of a feeling person and don’t much oh why i just had to leave was how could we explain it.

[00:47:42] And me coming along more comfortable was saying I don’t know banjo Gianotti demand certain here’s how we believe that you need to know. And here’s the logic behind it. I find that true spirituality is the answer. And you can be confident being uncertain. I think God is more of a mystery than something that somebody that can actually be put in a box and explain. And yes I see so many people that leave the home and church and want nothing to do with God because they equate the church with God because it basically is a god. What I discovered was that that god of the whole church isn’t God also dead. Right that there is a real god that doesn’t condone that doesn’t Shameen is invested in my healing as a person. That wants a relationship with me. I just kind of a la open mind about who he is and what he is my wife where we are right now. They want to give a shout out to my wife. Sticking with me through all this shit and all the things that we’ve been through incredibly hard I will not be where I am today without her. She has a real good bullshit Dr. and just simply can’t put up with it anymore and that’s got me I want to splurge forever. I gone today SAG’s when it came down to actually pulling the trigger. Lege I don’t know. I actually don’t have the courage to do it without her. When they decided that we’re going to stay. Well just we’ll just put up with it. And she was like Nah if you say I’m leaving anyone’s.

[00:50:39] I was like Leslie’s seems like wow the first year that we left was year in after third year the first year of the year a lot of fear excitement new experiences new people mad lot a whole lot of joy a lot of grief. The second year things just start to settle in the finality of what we had done. We were separated from our families. We didn’t have that many new friends. And I was so different. There was a lotta grief and I said a second year or the year this year is a lot better I suspect. I’m I had we left the church not wanting to be one of those bitter assholes like we have seen. Seems like so many people we see just angry angry Chirgwin all that and talk about all the times how bad it is and how evil it is and how mistreated they were. I was determined not to be one of those people who were going to leave. I had was claim and. Just go out and prove to them that we were going to have this amazing life outside of the church. This year it’s like we had enough space away from the pressure of pressure the performance pressure judgment and the condemnation that a lot of star have just started to come out. A lot of ways. And I started to see more and more of the things that went through how ridiculous they were how cruel some things are. Also people were treated a lot of anger is karma and a lot of bitterness. I’m just sick about myself to feel actually entered into counselling and therapy again for some of the childhood words they mentioned before for my previous cancer.

[00:53:05] I discovered that I was sexually abused as a child and learned how much that affected my thoughts and not to blame on that for my behavior but it helps understand the compulsive behaviors that I had. And going into therapy for some of that to help them work on some of that trauma from my past. So. I’d like to say that was just amazing place for her and it’s difficult. It’s not been easy but it’s been worth it. It’s been so worth being out of here three years now. The farther we get away from it the more we see how the whole thing made the final time I stop reading about where there are so many things in there that is simply that makes sense. Bible and God is like a weapon against me. And so whenever I go to read a I just get all this all speech all these phrases that we use all the time as far as church. I felt like God was going to lead us to another church that was going to be just perfect. And I was really hoping to find a community of people that believed in God like we were to believe in God. And we did find a church soon after we left. We even known about before. We were looking but we found a church that is comprised of a lot of ocean ice. And it felt like such a home. And I think it was really appropriate for that was timely for that time.

[00:55:14] After about a year we we just felt to start going there and follow all the messages that we heard that were so helpful at the beginning were just oh we were still here. We wanted more growth so we stopped going to church there and we tried several other churches for some reason. Whenever there is anything that feels like any kind of control or legalism it’s just a trigger for us who can handle it. So right now we just find ourselves not going to church. We do. I do go occasionally to a local church here. It’s fairly safe. It’s easy Sharina to sit in the back and listen to the music sermons are good at this point. I’m Avari interested in finding people there. There have similar mindsets that we can do life together with like real life not this. Go to church all dressed up Sunday morning life. And little by little we continue to connect with people. One of my favorite things to do. Is there is a local brewery here that makes beer. I never had a conference 36 years old like 10 or a couple and I love going down there on a Saturday night and just getting a beer and sitting at the bar and just striking up a conversation with whoever happened to be sat by. And I think a lot of friends that were just amazing people at a bar day. They’re there to make friends to let their guard down they’ve handed over beers and some of the conversations like people talking about as close as they are and what their what their fears are or what their life what they’re going through. That’s one of my favorite things to do.

[00:57:25] One of the things that I still like really hard is knowing who I am and what I like. I see people that are passionate about water skiing or hunting your fishing gear for ever. That’s one thing that I became aware of just recently is how much shame I carry about. I realize I feel like I’m a loser. Like I don’t have something that I’m really good at. Some hobby and I struggle to say what I like or you know what I like listening to the mental illness Happy Hour podcast sometimes with a guest Paulwell so take turns saying what they fear and then what they lock in so I’m kicking myself Irob or first things I love and I’m starting to come up with things like you know how I’m turning on the music in my bathroom shower hot shower. Now that just is like my favorite part of the day. I love music. I didn’t used to be only listened to. Now I listen to music all the time. But that’s one of my hopes is that I will be able to find things that I enjoy and not feel guilty about enjoying soccer is the new term. My Beauty is how I always live in our rear car. We do feel to your family and I’ve done the best job at it. I’m starting to discover that actually I have to care for myself first so that I can be job for my Hamline and it’s hard like I’ll take awesome reasons and going out with some friends and it’s great but they have to really fight with guilt really my family at home I’m off just having fun. Yeah I’m getting better at it but it’s part of the process.

[00:59:57] So I don’t seem to understand a whole lot. But what I like to think is that even though I said at the beginning that I am shunned Sharon is not my identity. I’m not a victim. Mine are much more powerful rescue. Mean I have a good a ha. I love people I love talking with people about things that are close to their heart Lorio. Rob I’m tired of Thay in Posey polishing her care how wrong it is. I’d rather have that than good rather messy than having everything together. And I still reduce that pressure to make lots of mice to be a good husband to be a good father to be a good person and keep having to take a step back take a deep breath and just say just chill out just relax. You got this. You don’t have to be perfect. I’m very passionate about reaching men because so many of us are disillusioned with life. I struggle with things I wish I had any sort of worth. Wonder why our marriage didn’t turn out like we thought I was going to wonder why life is a turning out. We thought it was going to. And I know that there is there that there is a possibility for a good life for real were living it strengthens me. As I find my way to living in true manhood masculinity are more clearly to others than others. There are starter I’m telling my story because that’s my story and I want to expose things that are secret. The shame that I was raised under I just have to continue to break that shame.

[01:02:34] Thank you for listening again. Feel free to leave a comment to today’s guest. Podcast dot com on the post for this episode. Music is always an important way of marking the journey and often helps us to process feelings that we can’t express at the time. So visit the website to see the songs chosen by each guest to represent their personal journey. Speaking of music all music on this podcast has been performed by Paddington Bear. If you appreciate this podcast please help others to find it. Leaving a five star review on iTunes which helps the show rank and get exposure. If you were shunned and wanted to sell your story email me through the contact form on the Web site or if you just want to say hi. Feel free to do the same. If you’d like to know more about me and the cult of Jehovah’s Witnesses I encourage you to listen to my nine part series on the cult. At this J.W. life dot com or on the podcast called this J.W. life. Remember that those around you may be going through something like this and that you have no knowledge of. So give them the benefit of the doubt love others do no harm and go be happy.