In this episode we hear the audio of David’s Kingdom Hall Crash and discuss the aftermath. The original video is below (thanks to Locked In The Tower), but my commentary and some additional updates are found in the podcast.
19 thoughts on “Episode Nine – Update – David Speaks Out”
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I was a JW for almost 25 years. I feel for David’s pain. After hearing this train wreck of a meeting with the elders, the emotional turmoil, and the crying, I have to ask David one question. Why do you give the org and these men such power over you? Move on, live a good life, and if you desire, get the police and the legal authorities involved. These men are stooges for the org. They speak in circles and are towing the WTBTS’s line. Stop beating yourself up.
Hey Waldo. I agree with you, and David probably would as well, that he shouldn’t beat himself up over this stuff. I also agree that these men are stooges for the organization, though they themselves are cult victims too.
Where I disagree is in your assertion expressed in your question “why does David give these men such power over him”. The way you express it is one that I see often in the ex-JW community. People don’t want to admit that the organization had power over us and that it might even continue to have impacts on us afterward. But really, aren’t you kind of saying “why don’t you just get over the abuse”? I mean, nobody would ever do that to someone, but that’s kind of the assertion here. People are impacted differently by abuse. Some just walk away and leave it behind. Many of those people often are in denial and later find themselves dealing with the effects of things they thought they could just walk away from because they never processed things.
People react differently to things, they process them differently. We aren’t in a cult anymore, and it isn’t fair to expect others to react as we think they should. It isn’t up to any of us to judge David’s reaction. David did what David needed to do for David. I would also encourage any that think the organization holds no power over them to look into why they are still doing things like listening to my podcasts or putting time into ex-JW communities. Let’s face it, we’re all impacted by this stuff. Some had worse experiences than others. Some might be more sensitive than others. We all have different emotional makeups, different needs. Some of us are type A personalities, really driven, and others may be more happy to go with the flow and stay in the background. Let’s just love each other wherever they may be and support one another.
I’m glad you seem to find yourself in a place where, at least for you, just letting go is a thing. Many leave with true PTSD after what they went through. I was able to let go of my family fairly easily because maybe I wasn’t as close with them as some were. I certainly wouldn’t criticize those that had tighter families for being impacted more though.
In the end we’re all out of the cult and get to handle it the way that feels right to us. Some fade, others disassociate, there is no right or wrong way to leave, just ways that feel more authentic for the person leaving.
Thanks Waldo,
And thanks Mike, I definitely would echo your response.
Waldo, I get what you are saying. And believe me. Just my quick take on a few things. Most wounds will heal simply from the passage of time, like an injury that fades just because of the temporal distance from the traumatic event. The “time heals all wounds” type of stuff. But for me I have been healing and getting stronger. The simple passage of time will heal one, but to get stronger one needs to work out the muscle, even when it’s sore and hurts, it’s that breaking and tearing down that allows you to rebuild. In my life that is what I have done. I am stronger now and I don’t want to be an activist forever. You reach a point where living is all you want to do, I am at that point now, but I did not want to live with atrophy or weaknesses from refusing to work out my pains, and stand up for myself.
One last note, I have talked with the Investigator, He INSTANTLY believed me and cared! It was crazy to see how someone trained to detect truth and investigate wrongdoing right away heard the “ring of truth” in my statement. He had my back! I was always led to believe you can’t trust the local authorities, since they still belong to Satan’s system. I was taught only true love and concern can be found in “the Truth”, well after pleading with the Elders for their love and concern, and thinking they’d to have my back. I can say it’s completely the other way around! The Police had my back, showed true love and concern, and the Elders are the ones who should be mistrusted!
The firsthand juxtaposition I witnessed after talking with the police was the biggest healing for me, to witness that I was not crazy! That I was believed! That it was still wrong even though I was over 18! That the law cares about protecting young adults as well! Or that they even cared at all! And simply wanted to do the right thing! My statute of limitations is sadly up since this wasso long ago, however, I am currently speaking with members of the state legislature to repeal this and we are hoping to get a hearing that does away with the statue of limitations! Which is how it should be! You never know how long it will take a person to heal or become stronger enough to speak up, use their voice, and cry out for the justice they deserve, to put a limit on doing the right thing is rather ridiculous and I hope I can have real change in my state. Even if I never get the legal justice I deserve, I am helping others in the ExJW community as well as in the community at large in helping my State law makers and lending my voice to their cause.
Life is good! I am happy, healthy, and surrounded by a loving family and new social circle that has liberated me instead of kept me down.
Living the best life ever,
David
Another stunning and amazing chapter in this whirlwind series!!!!
David, we don’t know each other, however, I feel so close to you! Haha, thank you so much for sharing alllllll of this, bearing your soul, and allowing me to find some healing from my past abuse, through your story.
My favorite part of the recording, from your “Kingdom Hall Crash” was the end. Missy. She said “I’m so proud of you babe”
Damn. This non witness, this “worldly woman” has more love, compassion, pride, belief, and encouragement for you, in you, than 30 years of people who “raised you” in that sick, twisted cult.
I am so incredibly proud of you, and I am also so incredibly grateful for you, and for Mike. I grew up in the same congregation as Mike, and he gave me the courage to stand up for myself, and leave the cult, once and for all. It’s an emotional journey!
Thank you so much for letting me know that I am not alone.
Awesome! I am so very glad to hear from you! Reaching people like you, is one of the main reasons I feel I HAD TO DO WHAT I DID! For me and for others! Maybe it won’t wake up the whole world like I hope it does. But helping those who simply need encouragement and strength whether they have been out 2 weeks or 20 years, that’s a powerful effect. It was less about results and more about impact. I can tell you first hand it had a huge impact on me, “sharing allllll this” as you say, made me different. Even in such a short time I can tell.
I recently had a discussion with a young transgender person who left the JW. They called me a “hero”. I admit that was kind of weird, because I am just a regular guy to myself. I eat, I sleep, I have back hair, just a very regular guy. But in talking with her I realized something. I had one moment in my life where I thought about taking my own life. Had I done that then, I wouldn’t be helping anyone now, I wouldn’t be in a position for someone to even make me uncomfortably blush, by the mantle of their “hero”. But it hit me hard that, there were people I never thought about my actions could hurt them because I never knew them even… how crazy is that? There are people out there that will need you or take something from your life that you don’t even know yet!!!
You never can sum up a person, or their impact on those around them at any one point in time. As long as we are here we are affecting something! We have meaning, maybe even to people like you and I, who have never met, but have connected only over the simple truth that we both went through something awful. What a weird and wonderful world we live in eh?
Thanks again, warmly,
David.
ps. I only read Batman comics… he’s kind of my secret comic guilty pleasure. All the rest are just comics to me, but Batman… he is something more! He’s just like you or I, normal person with a strong sense of right and wrong and a sharp intellect, a person who went through great tragedy himself. But he holds to his own rules… No Guns, No killing. You would think for a guy without super powers guns might be high on his priorities, but no, not for Batman. And the fact he doesn’t kill is the best, because it allows the amazing ensemble of villains to continually reappear and need dealing with, then he just locks me up again… until the next time. Best villains in any comic hero’s story, period!
And if you are reader of Batman comics, Scott Snyder, is amazing as a comic writer! He actually seems to bring Gotham to life! Brick and stone seem living and breathing and for some weird reason worth redeeming to Batman. Anyway I digress….
Later
Oh and you nailed it about Missy! She not only is the best part of the Video… she’s the best part of my everyday. I wouldn’t be much of anything, or certainly where I am without her!
Lucky for me I got the only “Missy” in the whole wide world. But, Everyone deserves a “Missy” of their own!
Yyaaayyyy
Yes batman is all I read and collect, and my last name is Knight, so it serves a dual purpose!
Thank you again. All of the reasons you listed for liking Batman… It resonates man. I get it.
You’re so right about Missy. She’s your Twin Flame!
Omg these elders have no fucking compassion! They were more worried about him respecting them over the seriousness of his outcry, this is a total fucking joke! I hate this religion and this organization and I can’t even imagine what it was like to have to sit there and talk to these trash people. I’m so glad I left and I’m disfellowshipped, I laugh when they act like they can’t talk to me, I feel sorry for them that they are still stuck in this cult and are sheep blindly following their leader off a cliff.
This is the first time I’ve listened to a podcast & I’m glad I listened to ur story!
I listened to the podcast and saw the video, I cried with u and 4 u. I’ve sat in ur shoes & I’m so sorry u 2 had 2 experienced this. It was so difficult 2 listen 2. I 2 was in a similar position but never had the courage 2 confront them in public. I didnt know how 2 speak up 4 myself & I was ashamed because I was told not 2 bring reproach against Jehovahs name, I felt guilt. I was also told that I was a liar. No1 would believe me anyway. My depression turned 2 suicidal thoughts & then I attempted 2 kill myself. They couldnt wait 2 get me out, then the situation could die down. It was awful. I still have all my scars & the emotional scars still bring me 2 tears.
I understand why u needed 2 stand up 4 yourself, u needed your voice back. They already took so much from u & because they didnt defend u in any way, u needed to take ur control back. U needed to stand up 4 the boy that no1 helped or believed. Thank u 4 sharing ur experience with us. Thank u 4 showing courage in the mist of all ur pain.
You didnt deserve any abuse. You NEEDED them 2 do the right thing 2 make sure u felt safe & no1 else would be abused.
I want u 2 know my heart bled listening 2 ur story & I hope u are healing & recovering. I need u 2 know it wasnt ur fault! U are not 2 blame. In the tears I cry, I’m sending u love & support. U are not alone.
I’m so sorry they treated u like that. Continue to be strong! Continue 2 fight 4 justice & never give up on yourself because we will never give up on you. ((Hugs))
Thank you, deeply.
It’s bittersweet to know others understand. On one level I feel comforted by not actually being alone as I felt at times, but on the other level that means someone else knows the same pain I know, and that’s awful.
We are made stronger by our experiences an continually define, refine and redefine ourselves. I am in a wonderful place now! And the pain feels like it happened almost lifetimes ago. I hope everyone finds the kind of peace and love and happiness I have found, not happy by the same things necessarily, just happy in the same way and level of intensity.
I truly appreciate you and your kind words. The hugs, tears, and love you’ve bared on my behalf are precious and I thank you for your empathy.
Keep on keeping on and never be sorry for feeling strongly… it means you are connected to the world around you and those in it. You are human!
Warmly,
David
The conversation was difficult to listen to because these men didn’t express hardly any care or compassion. I totally understand wanting others to believe you and to console you. I’m so happy that you expressed yourself, using your voice and physical presence, emoting your trauma. So many people are conditioned to bottle it up or disconnect from it.
Thank you Nicholas. It seems like so long ago, but doing this helped me heal, also though, my healing here can forever be heard it’s been logged and recorded here forever to help future listeners. And that’s beautiful to me. That it can stand and be used to continue to help people.
Thank you for taking the time to listen.
David,
I just want to say as an ex Jw, you’re an inspiration and a beautiful human. Not only do I think you did a courageous thing by telling your story on the podcast, but to tell your truth at the hall. I got the chills and was very moved. I wish I could of been there with you. You’ve even inspired me to reach out to Mike and tell my story. Thank you for being you and I wish you all the best.
-Mario
Awesome Mario!
Thanks. I am so glad it helped and inspired you. Reaching out to Mike was great as you will find out. It really helps oneself, but as I am sure you will also see others come out of the woodwork and let you know how YOU helped THEM! I can’t wait for you to experience that… it means a lot. I Am honored to have lended my story of it helps even one, and I have gotten that Back tenfold.
Wishing you all the best, can’t wait to hear your Story!
Keep strong
David
David, this is a super late comment, but I’ve been working my way backwards through this podcast and I’ve spent the last couple of days on all four chapters of your story and I’m so struck by it. I feel so much for you and appreciate your bravery in speaking out. I love genuine people and you sound like pretty much the most genuine person I’ve ever encountered.
You showed exceptional bravery in this Hall Crash (I could barely listen, so certainly more than me). Listening to this conversation made me so angry cause these elders were basically brick walls. No give, no compassion, just giving you the barest if acknowledgements and circling back around to the topic they wanted to address. You’re so brave for doing it. I hope life has been going well for you since this was posted.
(Sorry for the alias, still PIMO, but hopefully not for too much longer. I very much hope to share my story on this Podcast someday too)
Wow. Thanks. I really appreciate this. It’s great to know that my story has and still is apparently helping others. Keep your head up. The fact that you’re PIMO is a form of courage in itself. I wish you nothing by the best on your journey out and I hope for a smooth and easy exit for you.
Christopher once told Winnie the Pooh this, and I am going to repeat it to you; “You’re smarter than you think, stronger than you realize and braver than you believe”. Or something to that effect.
Again I thank you for the kind words… be sure to reach out to me once you’re free as well so I can connect that version of yourself with this comment.
David, your entire story and journey has been one of the hardest stories to listen to on this podcast. I have been raised and in this religion, as well as my entire family. It’s always be difficult to grow up a teenager and never fully understanding why certain things didn’t sit well with me. Now I fully know. More than the insane and rampant sexism, the homophobia, and even the inhumane shunning/”disfellowshipping”- is the disgusting tolerance of abuse. I can honestly say after listening to the elders’ reactions to this, I can never look at the organization in the same way. I used to be afraid to listen to ‘apostate material’. I used to think it was like what you said-just angry crazy people. This is what they TAUGHT us to think and believe. But hearing myself in you in so many areas of your life and just wanting to do the right thing. Like you, I do not want to lose compassion for anyone, even those the most immersed in this. You are the strongest and bravest person for sharing this with us and having to relive the trauma again for others to understand just how these people work. I am truly grateful to you sharing your story, because like your own research with your wife, your story is the turning point in me realizing I can never go back and full support such an inhumane organization. This isn;t what God’s love is about. I will appreciate you sharing this story more than you can ever realize.
Wow! That’s some heavy stuff. I don’t know what to say… Thank you seems kind of underwhelming. But thanks so much for letting me know the impact this had on you. I am so glad you could get out and get free, and to think that this could help you get fully and truly free, with no more ties to entangle you and ensare you back… I am just honored beyond what I ever imagined by sharing my story.
Take care, thanks again Mandy. Wishing you all the best.
-David